Gas stove or petrol?

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thelawnet
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Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 17 Dec 2018, 10:09pm

So I can get these easily enough https://www.klikindomaret.com/product/gas

or petrol incredibly easily

Kerosene probably, not sure if easier than the petrol.

I could obtain meths but it would need to be ordered - a few days.

I'm tempted by something like the Coleman Feather for petrol. But maybe gas is a better option?

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 17 Dec 2018, 10:31pm

I don't like petrol as a camping fuel.
The risk of explosion or rapid fire after any spillage is to high.
But it's ready availability is a plus.

Gas is very convenient but rather pricey.
Paraffin ( kerosene) is good pretty safe and long lasting but preheating can be a bit of a faff.

Meths has it's fans- Triangia has good following.
Plenty of advice on here.

My personal camping stove is an older Optimus multi fuel jobby.
Theoretically it will burn gas,paraffin,petrol and, at a push, diesel.

I use gas and paraffin. Gas for a quick brew and paraffin for prolonged camping cooking and heat.
With a quick and deft hand it is possible to swop fuel from gas to paraffin without the thing going out!
Which has the added advantage of making preheating with meths unnecessary.

LollyKat
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby LollyKat » 17 Dec 2018, 11:14pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:I don't like petrol as a camping fuel.
The risk of explosion or rapid fire after any spillage is to high.
But its ready availability is a plus.

Note, however, that modern unleaded has some very nasty additives and it is NOT recommended for use in camping stoves. Instead you should use Coleman fuel, Aspen fuel, or panel wipe.

What is sold in the UK as White Spirit (for cleaning paint brushes) is the same as paraffin, just a bit less smelly, and readily available in supermarkets. It burns very cleanly in my old brass Primus stoves (and is also good for cleaning bike chains :wink: ). The disadvantage is having to carry meths for priming, but a little goes a long way, particular if you add a wick to the priming cup.

Brucey
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Brucey » 18 Dec 2018, 12:39am

there is no perfect fuel, with ideal combination of

- availability
- cost
- volatility
- calorific value (fuel consumption)
- smell
- toxicity

Gas is OK but there is no really universal standard for the cartridges so availability is poor in many places. A significant problem (for all-weather camping, not so much for what you will be doing I expect) is that in the cold it can cease to have enough pressure in the cartridge. The canister cools itself as the gas is used and it can take an age to boil a pint of water if the cartridge is cold.

Petrol is stinky, poisonous, volatile and dangerous. But it is freely available, except that filling stations often won't dispense the fuel in the small quantities that you might require. Special stove fuels overcome some of these problems but they are expensive and not widely available.

Alcohol is pretty good; you can use a simple stove like a Trangia with it and spills are only temporarily stinky. You have to use meths in a lot of places because there isn't an alternative; most of the freely available ethanol based fuels have methanol in, which is rather poisonous.

Paraffin has the highest calorific content and is probably the best for heat generated, if you want to do a lot of cooking. But the fuel is very stinky if it leaks and the stoves need to be preheated before they will burn cleanly. Primus stoves are brilliant but they are heavy, fiddly and if they go wrong it can be horrific. If you use some paper as a wick, you can avoid using alcohol as a priming fuel; paraffin soaked paper burns well enough.

Any fuel that is turned from a liquid to a gas inside a so-called 'gas generator' can sometimes turn out to not really be quite clean enough and can cause deposits to form inside the gas generator. Often this is merely irritating but sometimes it is a show-stopper. IME the simplest type of stove for solving this problem is a primus type stove; usually there is just a wadge of wire mesh inside the gas generator; this can be removed and cleaned, the nozzle pricked and you are all good again. Other gas generators are usually less easy to deal with when they start to give you gyp.

I've tried most fuel types and I've variously come unstuck with each of them. These days I choose the stove and fuel to suit the task in hand. For example on a fairly recent (fortunately car supported) camping trip a stove was required to (potentially) do some or most of the cooking for six people. I took a twin burner petrol coleman stove with me and it saw heavy use; we burnt about two pints of petrol a day in the stove.

BTW if you travel light, and all you want to do is brew up coffee for one and maybe boil a pint of water for a simple meal then there are various alternatives to dedicated stoves such as DIY alcohol burners (made from drinks cans, very lightweight) and/or miniature wood-burners. You can cook in the same billy as you eat from and all you need is a burner and a windshield/ stand for the billy and you are good.

BTW a good trick is to bring pasta to the boil, set it to one side (with the pan covered so it doesn't cool too quickly) and then cook the sauce. By the time the sauce is done the pasta is cooked through; a two-pan meal on a single burner.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 18 Dec 2018, 11:11am

In Indonesia I can easily buy petrol in a discarded Coca-Cola bottle or whatever, on the side of the road, probably within a mile of destination, so the acquisition is incredibly easy, and it's so cheap that wouldn't be any point in carrying it around. So the weight would effectively be only the stove, whereas with gas you'd presumably want to carry two gas cartridges, which is 700 grams.

Indonesian fuel is 88 octane so I'm assuming there's no fancy additives in it but it's probably not very pure.

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andrew_s
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby andrew_s » 18 Dec 2018, 2:45pm

thelawnet wrote:So I can get these easily enough https://www.klikindomaret.com/product/gas

or petrol incredibly easily

Those gas canisters are meant for stoves like the Campingaz Bistro, which aren't generally bike-packable.

The canisters are meant to be used in a horizontal position, and take the gas from the side of the canister, so if the canister's the wrong way up, you'll get liquid butane feeding to the burner. There's a notch in the side of the cap so that they can only be used the right way up in the proper stoves.
For camping use, you need an adapter, and for most adapters a burner that's connected via a hose. Ideally a hose-connected would have a pre-heat tube through the flame to avoid excess flare up if liquid gas gets into the hose.
Adapter for hose stove
Adaptor for hose stove (feet indicate which way up)
Adapter for canister-top stove
Adapter for canister-top stove

Most packable gas camping stoves are designed for this style of threaded canister, the blue unthreaded Campingaz equivalents, or the old puncture canisters.


Excess use of vehicle petrol will eventually* clog up the generator tube (through the flame) with deposits of unburnt additives, even if there's no general muck. Some stoves (eg MSR-GK) have a proper generating tube cleaning arrangement, but usually a replacement generator tube is required. It's worth checking the availability and price of replacements before buying.
* In Europe & the US, "eventually" is long enough that clogging isn't much of a problem for normal use (i.e. holiday use, no snow melting for water). Your petrol may differ.

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pjclinch
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby pjclinch » 18 Dec 2018, 3:31pm

Lots of good stuff above.

On the automotive petrol, aside from the overt nastiness of the stuff it's worth bearing in mind that all the extras in it tend to clog stoves, so aside from blowing yourself up and poisoning the neighbourhood you'll have more maintenance. Not that I'm trying to put you off petrol... okay, actually I am trying to put you off petrol. If you're in a place where you're pretty sure there will be petrol engines but no other reliable fuel supply then it's good, but otherwise I'd avoid it myself.

Coleman fuel and other "purist" petrols are better, but are expensive in the UK and less generally available than gas cans. While it doesn't take much practice to get safe with a petrol stove (mainly priming it) it does take some, and while there are people I'd trust to prime them in tents I'm not one of those people.

Gas is simple, clean and controllable. I'd take it over petrol unless there were supply issues.

I suspect a lot of the thing about petrol pressure stoves was a hangover from mountaineering circles where an MSR pressure stove was seen as a "proper" stove (along with a Quasar tent) because people used them on 8000m peaks. Well, they did and still do, but that's not very relevant to typical cycle camping use in the UK.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

hamster
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby hamster » 19 Dec 2018, 9:05am

Interesting how people's views differ!

I buy Aspen 4T in large cans from a lawnmower specialist. It's less faffy and far cheaper than gas, which always needs an extra cannister, or a shake when things run low. The high calorific value of gasoline means that a 300ml bottle will last a week's tour. I burn it in either an MSR Whisperlite or Coleman Peak1. For a few days I can fill the Peak1 and don't need to take a fuel bottle. I don't think it's really more dangerous than a damaged gas cannister (remember the old Gaz Bleuets?) But it depends on what makes you feel comfortable.

For ultralight trips I take a Jetboil.
Last edited by hamster on 19 Dec 2018, 3:13pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Dec 2018, 2:41pm

I love my little solid fuel stove:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

I also have a tiny vango Gas stove.
John

Cycling and recycling

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 19 Dec 2018, 3:24pm

I had a look and there there some wood things that I wasn't sure about, petrol stoves are quite pricey so in the end I've just gone for Trangia, which is £35 all-in so can't be wrong really https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Trangia-2 ... ve/34-6993

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 19 Dec 2018, 3:41pm

That's a good price for the trangia 25. I presume its for camping with the family being the 25 rather than the 27. A good choice in my opinion.
I have a multi fuel msr dragon fly good bit of kit but its the noise that gets me.

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nick12
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby nick12 » 19 Dec 2018, 3:48pm

[quote="Oldjohnw"]I love my little solid fuel stove:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

I like the look of the stove oldjohnw. Can you only use the gel fuel or can you use meths?
I made my own wood gas stove out of a tin from potatoes and a bean tin. Works amazing with wood pellets sold as cat litter.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Dec 2018, 5:27pm

I like the look of the stove oldjohnw. Can you only use the gel fuel or can you use meths?
I made my own wood gas stove out of a tin from potatoes and a bean tin. Works amazing with wood pellets sold as cat litter.


I try to use bits of wood and so on lying around. I usually have some solid fuel tablets available and some tumble dryer lint to get it going. One nice thing is that it provides both heat and light and looks cheerful.
John

Cycling and recycling

thelawnet
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby thelawnet » 19 Dec 2018, 6:02pm

nick12 wrote:That's a good price for the trangia 25. I presume its for camping with the family being the 25 rather than the 27. A good choice in my opinion.
I have a multi fuel msr dragon fly good bit of kit but its the noise that gets me.


not sure about family but I'm a fat ********, and there are always extra people around in Indonesia, so....

I've been advised to upgrade the frying pan to something a bit less 'sticky', looks like the stainless/alu Duossal is the one to get. Although there seem to be some stainless non-Trangia pans that are a bit cheaper?

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LinusR
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Re: Gas stove or petrol?

Postby LinusR » 19 Dec 2018, 7:14pm

nick12 wrote:I have a multi fuel msr dragon fly good bit of kit but its the noise that gets me.

Yeah, noisy but works well and a robust piece of kit that packs down inside a pan. Aspen 4 fuel from a lawnmower or chainsaw shop (about £5/litre) is my preference as it is cleaner, or unleaded petrol on a tour because it is available everywhere. Never tried it with other fuels.