** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Dec 2018, 6:08pm

Canuk wrote:The French had a very good idea 250 years ago, with a sharp bladed instrument and the bared necks of the elite at the sharp end of it. Mainstream media line to portray them as anarchic thugs, nothing could be father from the truth, these are just ordinary people, joiners, postmen, butchers, the retired. The people are revolting!

The gilet jaunes movement is taking a break over the holidays, but judging by the strong online communal activity they'll be back with a bang in January. Back with a notional similar idea to take down the government and replace them with former general Christian Jean Piquemal, a guy in the mould of De Gaulle, a hard hard case chap who point blank refused to be part of the current Macron administration, when offered the top job with the French army. The British could learn a thing or two from the French. Already there are gilet jaunes movements started in Denmark, Belgium, Sweden, Canada and now Spain.

Talking about a revolution, its been a long time coming. A long time (since 1968).

Now where did we stack those guillotines...


I think that Rachel Parris got this right on the Mash Report abut the present se of the word "elite"

When you get Rees-Mogg, Farage, Johnson, (rather ironically) dismissing the Protestors for a Second Referendum as "Elitist Liberals" then you have to be careful...... and ask who the "Elite" are rather than the trite way it is used to dismiss anyone not 100% in support of Brexit

Just remember you are one of the "Elite" if you are more educated, earn more, have a bigger house than the person making the judgement.... a simple lesson found out by Danton, Saint-Just and Robespierre who suddenly found themselves being executed

Cyril Haearn
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 18 Dec 2018, 6:25pm

I really think we have progressed and developed, surely no-one seriously advocates the death penalty or even 'jokes' about it, reminds me a bit of 'jokes' about killing cyclists, -99

MacRon could be exiled to arctic Canada or one of those tropical French possessions, or more likely he could get an advisor job €€€ and live quietly in La France profonde :wink:
Is there a real chance of his being removed from office?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Dec 2018, 6:47pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/18/brexit-cabinet-meets-to-discuss-ramping-up-plans-for-no-deal?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And they are even arguing amongst themslves about who pays for chartering emergency good ships.

Third world corrupt republic comes to mind.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 18 Dec 2018, 8:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

Canuk
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Canuk » 18 Dec 2018, 7:23pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I really think we have progressed and developed, surely no-one seriously advocates the death penalty or even 'jokes' about it, reminds me a bit of 'jokes' about killing cyclists, -99

MacRon could be exiled to arctic Canada or one of those tropical French possessions, or more likely he could get an advisor job €€€ and live quietly in La France profonde :wink:
Is there a real chance of his being removed from office?


His satisfaction ratings have dropped from 51% to 40%, then 35% and now 19%... He wouldn't be the first French president to underestimate the power of people 'dans le rue'. There's a real hatred now, from the local shopkeeper to the pensioner in her 80's across the road for this politics of the Riche. A few more weekends of organised resistance and car burning and he's for the off. The French people will put up with it till they think the government can't keep law and order any more. After that, any colour of government is finished.

The feelings are running very high here in rural France, they burnt 12 electric cars from the energy company Enedis last weekend. In a town you wouldn't think they would say boo to anyone. The French reaslised long ago that standing on the barricades throwing bricks is a worthwhile and productive enterprise. It works, and successive governments really fear this kind of organised opposition.

Long may it continue, and far should it spread. This global agenda has to be stopped. And if not stopped then at least a few wheels off its progress.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 18 Dec 2018, 7:27pm

pwa wrote:
661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:now now now thats scare mongering, you getting a sub from Cameron?
You mean to say, you aren't scared at the prospect of armed soldiers roaming our streets?

I just hope I don't live long enough to see things like that...

I don't think the idea is that they will be fighting a war. More likely they will be marshalling traffic near Dover or something like that. But you can start nailing boards over your windows if it makes you sleep better. :lol:


3,500 troops on standby to deal with any disruption - that sounds a like a bit more than directing traffic. You don't need troops for such duties PCSO and traffic wardens will suffice.
Food shortages, medicine shortages, armed troops on standby etc. Just hope all you supporters of brexit will feel some satisfaction if these things are inflicted upon us. Still it's democracy innit ie what you voted for.

pwa
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pwa » 18 Dec 2018, 7:37pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
661-Pete wrote:You mean to say, you aren't scared at the prospect of armed soldiers roaming our streets?

I just hope I don't live long enough to see things like that...

I don't think the idea is that they will be fighting a war. More likely they will be marshalling traffic near Dover or something like that. But you can start nailing boards over your windows if it makes you sleep better. :lol:


3,500 troops on standby to deal with any disruption - that sounds a like a bit more than directing traffic. You don't need troops for such duties PCSO and traffic wardens will suffice.
Food shortages, medicine shortages, armed troops on standby etc. Just hope all you supporters of brexit will feel some satisfaction if these things are inflicted upon us. Still it's democracy innit ie what you voted for.

So all the PCSOs and traffic wardens will be taken off the streets of Manchester and Cardiff and sent to organise holding areas at the Channel ports? That doesn't sound likely, especially as we have troops not fighting any major wars at the moment. And don't be so grumpy. It's bad for your blood pressure.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 18 Dec 2018, 7:55pm

pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:I don't think the idea is that they will be fighting a war. More likely they will be marshalling traffic near Dover or something like that. But you can start nailing boards over your windows if it makes you sleep better. :lol:


3,500 troops on standby to deal with any disruption - that sounds a like a bit more than directing traffic. You don't need troops for such duties PCSO and traffic wardens will suffice.
Food shortages, medicine shortages, armed troops on standby etc. Just hope all you supporters of brexit will feel some satisfaction if these things are inflicted upon us. Still it's democracy innit ie what you voted for.

So all the PCSOs and traffic wardens will be taken off the streets of Manchester and Cardiff and sent to organise holding areas at the Channel ports? That doesn't sound likely, especially as we have troops not fighting any major wars at the moment. And don't be so grumpy. It's bad for your blood pressure.


How does disagreeing with you mean someone is grumpy?

Troops have no legal powers to direct traffic. PCSO, Traffic Wardens and Police Officers do.
Yes as in any other policing event which requires extra numbers other police forces help out For example when the pit strike was on they never had any proble.ms sending large number of coppers all over the country though I guess that's a use of police that you right leaning folk approved of.

Maybe you're in luck though and the troops will be used to round up EU migrants for deportation - that should warm the cockles of your heart... :lol:

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Dec 2018, 8:07pm

Perhaps he means, I am the one being grumpy. Can you blame me?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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Eton Rifle
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Eton Rifle » 18 Dec 2018, 8:11pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Hello again, Dear oldjohnw, the points you cite me as having posted (post time 3-45), have never been stated by me, nor supported by me (Can I put an exclamation mark here?).


Mr Merseymouth - you claimed we were run or controlled from Europe. I asked in what way. I said certainly not in that list. So how?

You made the claim: you should back it up.


Don't hold your breath; this fantasy that the EU consists of a vast monolith of unelected beaurocrats making all the decisions is one of the most pernicious lies that Brexiters seem to have fallen for. The Economist explains it rather well here:

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/14/does-it-make-sense-to-refer-to-eu-officials-as-unelected-bureaucrats

The reality is that the EU has less than 10% of the number of civil servants that the UK has - pretty efficient for an organisation covering 28 countries, 513 million people and a quarter of global GDP. Oh hang on, Brexiters don't do facts, do they?

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 18 Dec 2018, 8:29pm

mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:an interesting article from the BBC on 2nd referendums and an point about the dishonesty of the French in the way they handled an initial NO

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46591250

Why do you find it interesting?

Isn't Mrs May behaving like the French there, refusing us a referendum on the altered case now that Brexit has been defined? So would you say she's being dishonest?


eh? the French case they have a referendum over an issue, got no, got the issue modified then decided that it shouldnt be decided by referendum, changed the goal posts and passed the modificaton within the confines of govt. Slightly different but in an important way May is accepting the referendum, the French one seemed not to and ignored the popular vote and didnt risk another rejection so made the decision internally. Thats corrupt and shows contempt in a way Mays version doesnt ( though she is getting close to it)

Eh? May isn't accepting the referendum - her deal simply wasn't on it, only Cameron's deal and a vague intention to leave. Now she's trying to avoid risking another deal rejection and make the decision internally - heck, she would have gone even further and made the decision inside the cabinet had she not been blocked! How is she not far worse than the French government of a decade-plus ago?
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merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 18 Dec 2018, 8:36pm

Hi again,Maybe if the Brussells mob stop doing the "Strasborg Shuffle" I might concede that they listen, but until then I'll maintain the stance of saying that they are a few bricks short of a load.
Talk about rearranging the deckchairs after hitting the iceberg. IGICB MM

Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Dec 2018, 8:38pm

Don't hold your breath; this fantasy that the EU consists of a vast monolith of unelected beaurocrats making all the decisions is one of the most pernicious lies that Brexiters seem to have fallen for. The Economist explains it rather well here:

https://www.economist.com/the-economist ... ureaucrats

The reality is that the EU has less than 10% of the number of civil servants that the UK has - pretty efficient for an organisation covering 28 countries, 513 million people and a quarter of global GDP. Oh hang on, Brexiters don't do facts, do they?


Yes. I've even heard people complain about the unelected EU judges.

I declare an interest: I worked on secondment and later as a so-called expert at the Commssion.
John

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 18 Dec 2018, 8:54pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi again,Maybe if the Brussells mob stop doing the "Strasborg Shuffle" I might concede that they listen, but until then I'll maintain the stance of saying that they are a few bricks short of a load.
Talk about rearranging the deckchairs after hitting the iceberg. IGICB MM

It is a disgrace to try to blame the recent attacks in Strasbourg on the EU! Are there no depths that Leavers will not plumb?
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 18 Dec 2018, 9:04pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Don't hold your breath; this fantasy that the EU consists of a vast monolith of unelected beaurocrats making all the decisions is one of the most pernicious lies that Brexiters seem to have fallen for. The Economist explains it rather well here:

https://www.economist.com/the-economist ... ureaucrats

The reality is that the EU has less than 10% of the number of civil servants that the UK has - pretty efficient for an organisation covering 28 countries, 513 million people and a quarter of global GDP. Oh hang on, Brexiters don't do facts, do they?


Yes. I've even heard people complain about the unelected EU judges.

I declare an interest: I worked on secondment and later as a so-called expert at the Commssion.

So-called expert? :wink:
Care to tell us a bit more? Danke
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Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Dec 2018, 9:25pm

I worked in criminal justice and after doing some work in the EU Enlargement Directorate ( which assisted potential members, mainly then the Balkian States to meet EU norms eg civilian run prisons) I was registered as an official expert so that I could work directly advising these countries.

Just another unelected bureaucrat, I'm afraid, daring to charge my expenses for travel.

Btw, Strasbourg Shuffle refers to the quite outrageous practice for the entire EU to decamp once a month from Brussels to Strasbourg. It dates to the insistence of General de Gaulle to compensate the French for not having the Commission headquartered in France.
John