degreasing and regreasing

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Airsporter1st
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Airsporter1st » 14 Dec 2018, 4:46pm

gregoryoftours wrote:
peetee wrote:
531colin wrote:It looks like the manufacturers are targeting this "smartwasher" and the associated "environmental friendliness" at cyclists.
https://www.rozone.co.uk/
https://www.rozone.co.uk/product-category/cleaning-machines/bike-workshops/


That's an 'interesting' video. I wonder how many of their customers make repeat visits to sort out siezed derailleur pivots and freewheels and dry hub bearings?

Yes I definitely wouldn't want my bike cleaned in the way it's done in that video.


I must confess, I don't see what the problem is. It doesn't use high pressure and it doesn't use an aggressive solvent. No different to a squirt of ''MucOff' and a garden hose. The advantage it has is its ability to direct the flow through a brush to the exact place you want it and, of course, the collection and re-use of the washing medium.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Brucey » 14 Dec 2018, 9:36pm

I've seen more than one 'suspiciously clean' -and completely seized- RD.

As I mentioned upthread and others have also said, the chemical nature of anything that strips grease at low temperatures means that any splashes that get onto seals will strip them dry and if any of the solution is left in nooks and crannies, it just gets more and more concentrated as the water evaporates from it.

The only reason you get away with using muc-off is if you rinse well and promptly as per the instructions. That will rot your bike too.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Airsporter1st
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Airsporter1st » 18 Dec 2018, 7:23pm

Brucey wrote:I've seen more than one 'suspiciously clean' -and completely seized- RD.

As I mentioned upthread and others have also said, the chemical nature of anything that strips grease at low temperatures means that any splashes that get onto seals will strip them dry and if any of the solution is left in nooks and crannies, it just gets more and more concentrated as the water evaporates from it.

The only reason you get away with using muc-off is if you rinse well and promptly as per the instructions. That will rot your bike too.

cheers


So rinsing as per the instructions will rot your bike??? What happens of you ride in the rain, I wonder?

Brucey
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Brucey » 19 Dec 2018, 12:04am

no, that is not what I said. Not rinsing thoroughly as per instructions will rot your bike.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Airsporter1st
Posts: 564
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Airsporter1st » 19 Dec 2018, 8:24am

Brucey wrote:no, that is not what I said. Not rinsing thoroughly as per instructions will rot your bike.

cheers


Sorry for my misunderstanding. What is it that will rot your bike then - the Muc Off? There are loads of products which are harmful or damaging if the useage instructions are not followed.

But back to the main point, the device under discussion simply makes bike cleaning a bit easier, as I said initially. To imply (not you) that its useage in accordance with instructions (including those of the chosen detergent) will damage a bike is just scaremongering.

Brucey
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Brucey » 19 Dec 2018, 12:47pm

anything that will chemically strip grease from free surfaces will also strip lubricant from seals and of course bearings too if it gets that far. The list of things that will do this is extensive and includes soaps, detergents, road salt, and of course any water-based 'cleaner'.

It is obvious that any residues left behind will become more and more concentrated as the water evaporates and whatever corrosive/grease stripping potential they have will become more and more enhanced. Such residues tend to collect in crevices etc which of course includes seals.

We use it every day without thinking about it but even ordinary soap is incredibly corrosive stuff; it will quite easily strip the plating from plated steel parts and so forth.

So when you clean your bike it is probably best if you avoid the use of such chemicals altogether, if you can do. If you do use anything that might leave a corrosive residue (and yes muc-off etc falls into that category, and so does road salt) then copious rinsing is usually mandatory. Since you cannot be sure that the cleaning solution hasn't already affected the seals, and you want to drive the rinsing water from any nooks and crannies, I recommend that you use a water displacing spray of some kind (eg WD40 or GT85) after rinsing, such that it leaves a small amount of lubricant behind. This will at least keep the seals happy (they tend to wear out very quickly -and of course are then almost totally useless- if there is no lubricant at all in/near them).

If you ask a motor mechanic if they have ever degreased an engine bay with (say) Gunk or Jizer they will of course say 'yes'; you can't easily pin down oil leaks unless you clean the nearby surfaces. If you also ask if they have ever seen something like an alternator, tensioning pulley, or starter motor fail shortly after the engine bay has been cleaned, they will also say 'yes' if they are being candid.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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fausto99
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby fausto99 » 28 Dec 2018, 2:08pm

fausto99 wrote:That's what's so nice about a small ultrasonic tank. You just have to get rid of ~700ml of dirty water plus drop of washing up liquid.

Lidl are doing a 600ml ultrasonic cleaner for £19.99 atm

Brucey
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Brucey » 28 Dec 2018, 3:52pm

I bought an Aldi one a few years ago and it has been pretty good. I often use it with solvent to clean chains. Two or three minutes is plenty.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Suffolker
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Suffolker » 28 Dec 2018, 6:52pm

Brucey wrote:I bought an Aldi one a few years ago and it has been pretty good. I often use it with solvent to clean chains. Two or three minutes is plenty.

cheers

I have one I bought for cleaning melodeon reeds, which it does well. I also use it for cycle parts of all sorts, fountain pens, the wife’s jewellery, tools and anything else I feel like using it for. I have some special cleaner to add to the water for certain metals, but usually some washing up liquid is adequate.

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Sweep
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Sweep » 29 Dec 2018, 5:20pm

Brucey wrote:I bought an Aldi one a few years ago and it has been pretty good. I often use it with solvent to clean chains. Two or three minutes is plenty.

cheers

So on a quick thread read you recommend one for chains but not other bike bits?

Any views on just using one with washing up liquid?

Must admit I like the sound of that.

If it's a realistic goer.

My current chain cleaning system is shaking it around in a 1 litre plastic milk bottle with degreaser. Rinse. Dry, lube.
Sweep

Brucey
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Brucey » 29 Dec 2018, 6:43pm

I don't think I've commented on using a UT cleaner for other things (certainly not recently) but I wouldn't recommend one for, say, a RD unless you were planning to strip the thing down afterwards so that it could be lubed properly again.

The thing I like about using one for chains is that -with the right solvent- it is quick. Whether you will get satisfactory results with a detergent/water solution depends on the detergent used and also what lube is on the chain; they don't all wash off equally easily. Obviously you have to rinse as a separate operation, as any soap residue will corrode the chain pdq.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Suffolker
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Suffolker » 30 Dec 2018, 8:05am

My ultrasonic washer bath is quite small, and thus most cycle parts (RD, rim brakes etc.) have to be stripped down to fit, and be treated as one "lot", or in stages. They always get a rinsing, or a final water-only finishing bath before reassembly, lubrication etc.

Mine is a washer with a built-in heater, which does help its cleaning effect.

I never put really filthy things like chains straight in without a fair amount of cleaning and toothbrushing beforehand. With the right (usually not cheap) cleaning fluids, a washer might clean an unprepared item first time around, but I use it to finish off cleaning, when it can get into the nooks and crannies that cannot be dismantled.

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fausto99
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby fausto99 » 30 Dec 2018, 3:06pm

Brucey wrote:I bought an Aldi one a few years ago and it has been pretty good. I often use it with solvent to clean chains. Two or three minutes is plenty.
I never use solvent as I don't want the hassle of disposal. I use only one drop of Fairy liquid per 750ml tank load of water. A chain which has been wiped down first may need up to 5-6 changes before the water remains clean looking. I then sometimes do a plain water rinse but not always. The chain then gets thrown at/onto a newspaper several times to get rid of most of the water, then hung up and dried thoroughly using a hot air gun. After that it's the lubricant(s) of your choice.

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Vetus Ossa
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby Vetus Ossa » 30 Dec 2018, 4:07pm

fausto99 wrote:
Brucey wrote:I bought an Aldi one a few years ago and it has been pretty good. I often use it with solvent to clean chains. Two or three minutes is plenty.
I never use solvent as I don't want the hassle of disposal. I use only one drop of Fairy liquid per 750ml tank load of water. A chain which has been wiped down first may need up to 5-6 changes before the water remains clean looking. I then sometimes do a plain water rinse but not always. The chain then gets thrown at/onto a newspaper several times to get rid of most of the water, then hung up and dried thoroughly using a hot air gun. After that it's the lubricant(s) of your choice.


Perfect timing.
I like to keep my chain clean, but cleaning them properly is such a faff, so after reading the comments here I decided to buy one of the Aldi ultrasonic cleaners mentioned above.
I was about to ask how those here go about using it but I think you have answered that one pretty well for me.
Thank you.

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BambooKiro
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Re: degreasing and regreasing

Postby BambooKiro » 8 Jan 2019, 2:24pm

Has anyone used WD-40 to clean the chain?

WD = Water Dispersant

... so it should leave the chain clean and moisture free?