New ebiker need an advice

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
iandusud
Posts: 198
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby iandusud » 5 Jan 2019, 3:10pm

I would not dismiss a geared hub motor as opposed to a mid-drive. Advantages are it is simpler, so less to go wrong. Your drive train will last longer. It is cheaper. I would imagine that your need is for assistance for climbing hills. If you choose the right kit it should suit your needs. Talk to Woosh about both options and get their perspective on it.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1956
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Jan 2019, 9:07pm

.Their only missive middrive kit is Pendix Mid Crank Drive Electric Bike Kit and it's from £1,649.00 which is far to expensive for me :/


Fair point. I have front hub motor which I find gives all the assistance I need - mainly on hills. Plus the bike continues to look like a normal bike and can be converted back if required.
John

Cycling and recycling

Marc
Posts: 58
Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 6:03pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby Marc » 5 Jan 2019, 9:25pm

Mark wrote:Hi,
Recently I started working as a bike courier and to make my life easier I want to convert my bike into electric one.

Hi Mark! ;)

Since you will ride quite some distance with your ebike and mid-drives put a lot more strain on the chain and sprockets (I've read of people who had to change their chains every 1,000km or so), I'd advise against a mid-drive.

Geared hub motors are fine, but choose the bigger versions (250W version of the Bafang CST, eZee or Puma/Mac for instance), because their planetary gears and clutch are much more sturdy than in the small geared hub motors.

Direct drive hub motors are quite heavy, but since their design is much simpler, they will run much longer between repairs. If you don't 'cook' them, the only thing that can wear or break are two ball bearings (10 bucks). DD-drives are cheaper than mid-drives or geared hub motors, too.

Whatever hub motor you choose, get a version with cassette adapter! The hub motor versions with screw-on freewheels can be a real pain to mount properly. Also, get quality torque arms! https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/torque-arms.html

I commuted between 30km and 65km a day for several years now (>60,000km) and went through several geared hub motors. Usually I had a second e-assisted trike, or at least a spare geared hub motor ready to swap, if the one in the commuter trike would break down.
Now, I only use direct drive hub motors for commuting.

My advice:
If you work as a bike courier, get a direct drive hub with cassette adapter and a battery that has at least twice the capacity you actually need*.
To determine the needed capacity, play with the Ebike Motor Simulator: https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html **
Don't skimp on the battery! It the most expensive and most important part of any (well made) electric assist system.

Also, get a good battery charger (Em3ev*** got cheap ones with 90% charge setting, they also build high quality batteries!) and don't forget to have a spare charger at hand. If your charger dies, you are stranded. ;)

Probably not in your budget yet, but hands down the best available ebike charger is the (360W, waterproof, programmable) Cycle Satiator: https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-satiator.html I got one of the first available units and use it for nearly 5 years now.
It ain't cheap, but when I count the costs of various 'cheap' Chinese charger's that died on me over a similar time in the past, I've theoretically saved €50 already. :D Also, while usual ebike chargers sport a noisy fan, the fan-less Satiator is completely quiet.

Cheers
Marc


*the battery will loose capacity with age and usage and will have a much longer service life (2-3x!) if you regularly charge only to 90% and only discharge it down to 30-40%. Thats exactly what car manufacturers do with electric car batteries, to extend their service life.

**thats the first tool I use, if I set-up a new assist system or tinker with one of mine (seven to date and counting).

***Em3ev is an Englishman based in Hong Kong, who runs a small family business and worked hard for his sterling reputation in the ebike community. He's actually the only 'Chinese' ebike parts vendor that I can recommend: https://em3ev.com/store
Here is a video of their battery production: https://etrike.wordpress.com/2017/06/28 ... ctory-tour (tough-out the annoying commentator/vlogger)

Mark
Posts: 7
Joined: 31 Dec 2018, 12:51pm

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby Mark » 6 Jan 2019, 7:51pm

iandusud wrote:I would not dismiss a geared hub motor as opposed to a mid-drive. Advantages are it is simpler, so less to go wrong. Your drive train will last longer. It is cheaper. I would imagine that your need is for assistance for climbing hills. If you choose the right kit it should suit your needs. Talk to Woosh about both options and get their perspective on it.

Thanks I already wrote them and waiting to hear what they say :)
Marc wrote:Since you will ride quite some distance with your ebike and mid-drives put a lot more strain on the chain and sprockets (I've read of people who had to change their chains every 1,000km or so), I'd advise against a mid-drive.


Yea I understand your point but I do not think it will be so bad. I am not going to ride off road and my motor won't be more powerfull than 250w so belive my chain will last for a bit longer :)
Beside than a chain is not very expensive and in my case performance > costs.


Marc wrote:Geared hub motors are fine, but choose the bigger versions (250W version of the Bafang CST, eZee or Puma/Mac for instance), because their planetary gears and clutch are much more sturdy than in the small geared hub motors.

Direct drive hub motors are quite heavy, but since their design is much simpler, they will run much longer between repairs. If you don't 'cook' them, the only thing that can wear or break are two ball bearings (10 bucks). DD-drives are cheaper than mid-drives or geared hub motors, too.

Whatever hub motor you choose, get a version with cassette adapter! The hub motor versions with screw-on freewheels can be a real pain to mount properly. Also, get quality torque arms! https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/torque-arms.html

I commuted between 30km and 65km a day for several years now (>60,000km) and went through several geared hub motors. Usually I had a second e-assisted trike, or at least a spare geared hub motor ready to swap, if the one in the commuter trike would break down.
Now, I only use direct drive hub motors for commuting.


If in the end I choose hub drive motor I will take your advices for sure :)

Marc wrote:My advice:
If you work as a bike courier, get a direct drive hub with cassette adapter and a battery that has at least twice the capacity you actually need*.
To determine the needed capacity, play with the Ebike Motor Simulator: https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html **
Don't skimp on the battery! It the most expensive and most important part of any (well made) electric assist system.

Also, get a good battery charger (Em3ev*** got cheap ones with 90% charge setting, they also build high quality batteries!) and don't forget to have a spare charger at hand. If your charger dies, you are stranded. ;)

Probably not in your budget yet, but hands down the best available ebike charger is the (360W, waterproof, programmable) Cycle Satiator: https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-satiator.html I got one of the first available units and use it for nearly 5 years now.
It ain't cheap, but when I count the costs of various 'cheap' Chinese charger's that died on me over a similar time in the past, I've theoretically saved €50 already. :D Also, while usual ebike chargers sport a noisy fan, the fan-less Satiator is completely quiet.


Good knowledge nice one for that! :)

Mark
Posts: 7
Joined: 31 Dec 2018, 12:51pm

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby Mark » 7 Jan 2019, 12:20pm

I thought about my needs and this is how it looks now:

My weight is 83kg (13st)
My cargo is light, maximum weight is 3-4 kg (6-8 lb) and I keep it in my backpackack.

I am after good acceleration, speed 25-30mh and store has to be UK based.
Range is not the most imprtant since I am going to buy two batterie and swap them durring the day.
I belive middrive motor or rear hubdrive motor will be best for me.
My budget for complete set with battery 700-1000Ł

iandusud
Posts: 198
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby iandusud » 7 Jan 2019, 3:15pm

Mark wrote:I am after good acceleration, speed 25-30mh and store has to be UK based.


Mark, please note that systems sold in the EU for use on roads are limited to 15mph, that is above that speed the electric assist cuts out. However I don't personally see this is as problem as in my mind's eye the benefit of electric assist on a bike is the help it can offer for climbing hills. If you want more than that then you really should be looking at a moped/scooter of some sort.

Also with regard to your comment about mid drives not being too bad on chains as they are only 250W, this is in fact misleading. The "nominal" 250W is somewhat elastic. There are 250W systems out there that probably peak out at 2 times that figure. By all means go for a mid-drive system but be prepared to renew chains and sprockets on a regular basis.

Ian

RS1
Posts: 4
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 8:15am

Re: New ebiker need an advice

Postby RS1 » 16 Jan 2019, 12:04pm

I was in the same boat back end of last year, just so many E bikes around. Some felt very heavy, with a noisy motor and very poor Batt life. Then I tried the S Works 2019 Turbo Levo. Whist it was expensive at just under 10k, as I don't intend to change it for some time it was an easy purchance. Big step up over the other E bikes in all areas, feels light, nice smooth motor, but the best part is the Batt life. I Can see about 4.5- 5Hrs that's around 60Klms use before it needs a re-charge.