Bikes aren't cars. Never have been and never will be. Once we realise that we can design proper facilities that doesn't assume that everything using it is a "vehicle"
However they do share the same space, and the same rules. Behaving and obeying those rules makes everyone more predictable and allows appropriate response.
I agree with some of what you write but the above is generally untrue. The "rules for drivers" and "rules for cyclists" sections of the Highway Code are very different. We do not share all the same rules, plus each has spaces the other cannot use: motorways and cycleways.
You are right,perhaps a better phrase would be “common rules”
kwackers wrote:Doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, not only does everyone not obey the rules but it turns out very few do and when they do for most people they simply cherry pick the ones they obey and the others are just cheeky little misdemeanours - unless done by a cyclist when it makes their anti-cyclist neurons fire like crazy.
Indeed. How many motorists stick below speed limits? A cyclist jumping a red light or riding on the pavement is usually just an irritation, but a the same by a motor vehicle is a danger. Even a cyclist getting ahead of a stationary queue of motor vehicles by using a cycle lane can be an irritation to some motorists, especially when they passed me half a mile back.
On two occasions recently I stopped at pedestrian controlled lights, only to be overtaken by a car.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
This is a German study and rather than just counting how many bloody cyclists jumped lights it looks at HOW they did it, the type of bike they were on and the type of infrastructure in use. Of particular interest if you can't be bothered reading the whole thing is this phrase in the summary: t should be noted, however, that, despite the fact that we observed far more than 1000 cases of red light running, we did not observe a single safety critical situation.
In other words, they saw lots of cyclists disobey a red light. But none of those cases presented any additional danger to the cyclist or to other road users. I've said this before on other forums in the seemingly never-ending red light debates; when a cyclist junps a red light it's almost always done for reaosns of convenience (not losing momentum or at least, not having to actually stop) and/or safety (moving away from a left-turning vehicle or getting a head start into a lane change). It's never done from a position of putting themselves into MORE danger.
There are several junctions where I cycle off a moment before green, if I wait for green I am endangered by motrons. The lights are set for high capacity, not safety first The least unsafe thing to do is to break the law, or one could take a different longer route sometimes
When driving I stop, apply the handbrake, engage neutral, wait for green
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 14 Dec 2018, 1:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Thanks for the link, it made interesting reading, though it's a pity you were so selective with your quoting, maybe the complete paragraph would have been better though it's somewhat at odds with your analysis
It should be noted, however, that, despite the fact that we observed far more than 1000 cases of red light running, we did not observe a single safety critical situation. While this, by no means, should be considered as evidence that this behaviour is safe, it points to a relevant gap in research. We know, for example, from police reports, that individual crashes can be blamed on cases of red light running. Also, on a theoretical level, it can be argued that road users behaving in a predictable manner (which includes, most of the time, behaviour in compliance with road rules, e.g., stopping on red) is safer than unpredictable behaviour. Nevertheless, as far as we are aware, there is has been no quantification of the crash risk in relation to cyclist red light running. While it is reasonable to assume that stopping on red is safer than not stopping, so far, there is no way of telling how serious the issue is. Also, given that our results show that red light running rates depend on a variety of factors, it would not be surprising if also the crash risk as a result of running a red light would differ considerably. But again, information is lacking.
I don't know if it *is* 'reasonable to assume' that given the rest of the research.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
[XAP]Bob wrote:I don't know if it *is* 'reasonable to assume' that given the rest of the research.
Having been driven into on more than one occasion, because I stopped at a red light and the car driver behind didn't want to: IU would say that such an assumption is entirely unreasonable .
I was in a nearby town the other day. Waiting for my lift I was stood within view of the approach to a large traffic light controlled roundabout right outside police headquarters. In the 15 or so minutes I was there several dozen vehicles went through on red, not a single one of them a cyclist. Multiple that stat by 96 to cover a whole 24 hours, and that thousands of cars and vans bumping through red. Where's the indignant Daily Mail level outcry at that?
I think the bottom line is that idiots are born that way. The transport mode they adopt later in life is unrelated to that.
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Lance Dopestrong wrote:I was in a nearby town the other day. Waiting for my lift I was stood within view of the approach to a large traffic light controlled roundabout right outside police headquarters. In the 15 or so minutes I was there several dozen vehicles went through on red, not a single one of them a cyclist. Multiple that stat by 96 to cover a whole 24 hours, and that thousands of cars and vans bumping through red. Where's the indignant Daily Mail level outcry at that?
I think the bottom line is that idiots are born that way. The transport mode they adopt later in life is unrelated to that.
On the days I get public transport home, my wife will come and pick me up at the station bus stop. The stop is right next to a set of traffic lights. I play 'spot the mobile telephone', and estimate that about 70-90% of drivers will have their mobile telephone in their hand when stopped at the lights. That's for those who actually do stop....
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