How much for a decent bike?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
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Sweep
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Sweep » 9 Jan 2019, 5:25pm

Brucey wrote:you are repeating yourself quite needlessly, presumably in a (vain?) attempt to justify your own decisions.

This thread is 'how much for a decent bike?'


+ 1 brucey.
I rather thought that was the thread topic as well.

I value this forum above others for the considered knowledge and common sense - much of it from you - problem solving, considered advice, not a FB brag fest.
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peetee
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby peetee » 9 Jan 2019, 7:42pm

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Marketing and social pressures are guilty of persuading people to buy and then buy to replace. Consumers are persuaded to purchase products with a performance advantage they will never be capable of exploiting. The vast majority of people new to cycling (and a large proportion of old hands) will gain nothing from spending more than £1000 on a bike.
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

rob_wales
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby rob_wales » 11 Jan 2019, 10:09am

peetee wrote:The vast majority of people new to cycling (and a large proportion of old hands) will gain nothing from spending more than £1000 on a bike.

I agree (I'm the OP). One of my bikes (the Raleigh) was £1,100 and I think it matches my needs perfectly https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Raleigh-Mustang-Elite-2019-Road-Bike_111337.htm. It seems to be well-built, has quite good components, is comfortable, youngsters stop and admire the bike, it rides well, it's fast and responsive. What more can a rider who cycles about 4-5k miles a year ask for? I partly started this thread because there are many new cyclists on the road these days and I wondered how they made a decision about pricing versus quality and needs. I think, if you can afford it, that £1,000 is a good bench-mark figure to go for. Even if you only keep the bike for 10 years then that is just £100 a year capital cost for many hours of happy and healthy cycling.

And on that subject, and taking into account the comments below about consumerism and marketing, you can always re-cycle your old bikes to a good home, as I did last year with my old bikes. I used Re-Cycle in Swansea. They repair and make road-worthy all donated bikes and they go to people who are on a tight budget. There are no doubt similar organisations in your own area. https://recyclesouthwales.wordpress.com/

peetee
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby peetee » 11 Jan 2019, 12:28pm

rob_wales wrote: there are many new cyclists on the road these days and I wondered how they made a decision about pricing versus quality and needs.


For those who are in to cycling as the new trendy must-do, they work out what they can afford, double it and then buy the bike on credit. :wink:
Current status report:
Latter side of fifty and feeling less than nifty.
Too many bikes on pegs and too few miles in the legs.

rob_wales
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby rob_wales » 11 Jan 2019, 12:47pm

peetee wrote:
rob_wales wrote: there are many new cyclists on the road these days and I wondered how they made a decision about pricing versus quality and needs.


For those who are in to cycling as the new trendy must-do, they work out what they can afford, double it and then buy the bike on credit. :wink:


Wrong thread. Surely you refer to the Audi/BMW/Mercedes purchases? :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby PH » 11 Jan 2019, 12:55pm

rob_wales wrote:One of my bikes (the Raleigh) was £1,100 and I think it matches my needs perfectly https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Raleigh-Mustang-Elite-2019-Road-Bike_111337.htm. It seems to be well-built, has quite good components, is comfortable, youngsters stop and admire the bike, it rides well, it's fast and responsive. What more can a rider who cycles about 4-5k miles a year ask for?

It's great that you've found the bike that suites your needs. But as you ask - a different rider may value different choices, such as - steel frame or carbon or titanium, none integrated headset, multiple chainrings, hydraulic brakes, or any of the other variables. What benefit they are is for the purchaser alone to decide, telling someone they don't benefit from spending more than £X is irrelevant unless you know what they were looking for by spending it. I like Rohloff gears, if I'd bought a hub thinking it's make me faster I'd have been disappointing, as I bought it for long term reliability and simplicity I've been very happy. I don't race and the only time I couldn't have done a ride on my £250 bike was when I needed the bike to fold. So why choose £1,000 as the X figure? have you done a ride that couldn't be done on a £500 bike? Where have you ridden that you couldn't on the bike you re-cycled? What value is people admiring it? What happens if you find yourself riding 10k miles, will it then be any better/worse?
How much for a decent bike? First define decent :wink:
Even if you only keep the bike for 10 years then that is just £100 a year capital cost for many hours of happy and healthy cycling.

So, a bike valued at £3,000 that's ridden twice as much as yours and is kept twice as long will be better value?

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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Vorpal » 11 Jan 2019, 1:12pm

Not long after the birth of Mini V, I was looking for a family-friendly cycle club, and tried going out with various clubs, often with Mini V in a seat on the bike.

On one ride, a member of the club I was considering said to me that I needed a new bike and went on to tell me that I should spend at least £600 to get something decent, insulting my bike indirectly, whilst he was at it. It was a chromalloy hybrid which had toured the USA and Scotland. I think I told him that it had 5000 or so miles on it, and I hoped to have that many more before I replaced, it or words to that effect. He left me alone about it, but that sort of opinion seemed to be relatively common in clubs, especially sport oriented ones.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby PH » 11 Jan 2019, 1:25pm

Vorpal wrote:that sort of opinion seemed to be relatively common in clubs, especially sport oriented ones.

I've come across it a few times, but equally the opposite which we see a bit of here - where people have ridden to the moon and back on a bike they pulled out of the skip - So what? Great if it makes them happy, but no more so than if someone's £5,000 bike has also made them happy.
I had the lecture on how little I needed to spend on a decent bike from an audax rider, it was all in good humour, but I had the last laugh as I past them loading their bike into the car before I rode home :lol:

thelawnet
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby thelawnet » 11 Jan 2019, 2:31pm

PH wrote:
rob_wales wrote:One of my bikes (the Raleigh) was £1,100 and I think it matches my needs perfectly https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Raleigh-Mustang-Elite-2019-Road-Bike_111337.htm. It seems to be well-built, has quite good components, is comfortable, youngsters stop and admire the bike, it rides well, it's fast and responsive. What more can a rider who cycles about 4-5k miles a year ask for?

It's great that you've found the bike that suites your needs. But as you ask - a different rider may value different choices, such as - steel frame or carbon or titanium, none integrated headset, multiple chainrings, hydraulic brakes, or any of the other variables. What benefit they are is for the purchaser alone to decide, telling someone they don't benefit from spending more than £X is irrelevant unless you know what they were looking for by spending it. I like Rohloff gears, if I'd bought a hub thinking it's make me faster I'd have been disappointing, as I bought it for long term reliability and simplicity I've been very happy. I don't race and the only time I couldn't have done a ride on my £250 bike was when I needed the bike to fold. So why choose £1,000 as the X figure? have you done a ride that couldn't be done on a £500 bike? Where have you ridden that you couldn't on the bike you re-cycled? What value is people admiring it? What happens if you find yourself riding 10k miles, will it then be any better/worse?
How much for a decent bike? First define decent :wink:


Agreed.

I have an Alur 700 which retailed at £700. My sun has a Triban 3. I think it was £300. Both bikes do the same job and have the same basic form, tyres, etc., (mine is a 50/34 with 105 10speed, his is a triple with Microshift 8-speed) except that he is much stronger, lighter & faster :lol:

My opinion is that the answer to the question 'how much is a decent bike' when posed in such terms should be much closer to £300 than £1000, since the 'decent bike' is sufficiently vague to suggest that the asker does not need, say, expensive suspension or fancy wheels, because they do not know the benefits or use case for such gubbins, and they just want to ride around. Ok, if they want to ride 10 miles to work then they'll want mudguards and panniers, whereas if they want something for going along the towpath they don't even need that, but fundamentally a £500 bicycle is more than decent for most people, providing of course that they choose the right KIND of £500 bicycle.

I think you can spend less than £500 for a bicycle if you know what you are doing, but for £500 for a 'bicycle' suitable for normal values of that word is quite ok.

The idea, frequently pushed, that you should spend £1000 on a bicycle is IMO nonsense, because a lot of people doing so don't even know WHY a particular bicycle should be worth £1000. Better spend less, say £500, and then if you want a £1000 bike in the future then you can sell your £500 bike and buy a used bike, being much better equipped to judge the differences.

Of course if someone comes and says 'I want a downhill MTB' then £1000 is not enough, but the fact that 'decent bike' in that sentence is at least qualified with some kind of use case at least implies that the extra money is more warranted.

(note of course that there's nothing particularly wrong with spending £1k rather than £300, but the differences in bikes are far smaller than the differences in the rider)

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Sweep
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Sweep » 11 Jan 2019, 6:13pm

Vorpal wrote:Not long after the birth of Mini V, I was looking for a family-friendly cycle club, and tried going out with various clubs, often with Mini V in a seat on the bike.

On one ride, a member of the club I was considering said to me that I needed a new bike and went on to tell me that I should spend at least £600 to get something decent, insulting my bike indirectly, whilst he was at it. It was a chromalloy hybrid which had toured the USA and Scotland. I think I told him that it had 5000 or so miles on it, and I hoped to have that many more before I replaced, it or words to that effect. He left me alone about it, but that sort of opinion seemed to be relatively common in clubs, especially sport oriented ones.


:)

good chromo hybrids with decent bits can take on the world.
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Brucey
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Brucey » 11 Jan 2019, 6:34pm

I think we have lost something important when the default situation is that bike clubs are almost exclusively populated by what (for want of a better name) I might refer to as 'bike snobs'. Worse yet the average bike snob knows little of any real value in terms of distinguishing components that are (say) reliable for those which are not.

cheers
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Vorpal » 11 Jan 2019, 7:14pm

Brucey wrote: bike clubs are almost exclusively populated by what (for want of a better name) I might refer to as 'bike snobs'

I think that's going too far. Althought bike snobbery may be fairly common, it's still a minority view. I was a long term member of a multi-affiliated club which I would say had no members who would fit the description 'bike snob', even though there were and are some keen racing and time trialling cyclists in the club.

I've also participated in events or marshalled for races put on by lots of other clubs. While I certainly encountered that sort of attitude, I wouldn't say that any clubs I encountered are populated almost exclusively by bike snobs, and I think it's grossly unfair to suggest that is the case.
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Brucey
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Brucey » 11 Jan 2019, 10:43pm

Machines for actual racing on have always been built in particular ways and at any one time (or even over time) there hasn't been too much variation in them; more details rather than fundamentals would be varied. If someone with enthusiasm and potential rode a few club time trials on a clearly unsuitable machine, often it would be pointed out to them that they would go a fair bit quicker on a different bike. Often better wheels (i.e. not with 35mm tyres and wide rims...) would come first and any benefits (for racing) would be fairly clear.

However maybe thirty years ago folk used to turn up on certain winter training runs locally (which normally attracted members from several local clubs) with all kinds of bikes, varying from one-time racing machines with mudguards nailed on somehow, through to various grotty heaps which had been touring bikes in a former life, even cx bikes or MTBs with slick tyres. No-one really cared what bike you rode as long as it didn't break too often, didn't shower everyone else with crud, and was ridden safely enough so that wheels could be followed. Some runs were carried out in darkness, so lights were obligatory. Fixed gears, hub gears, 1x, 2x, 3x derailleurs, side pull brakes, hub brakes, centre pull brakes, cantis, almost anything would do (*). If you turned up on something really odd, you might get folk asking about it but mostly because they were interested in it, very rarely in a judgemental fashion.

It is a little while since I have ridden with this sort of winter training group (my racing days being well behind me now) but when I've encountered similar groups riding recently they have all been riding the same kind of bikes, almost clones of one another; different coloured frames and different groupsets being the main variations. [e.g. few use a fixed gear machine as a winter training tool; it is more likely to be dismissed as something that is fit only for urban hipsters. ] It seems certain to me that (at the least) there is some kind of groupthink at work even on winter training rides and that if you turned up on something else you might not be accepted as part of that group. In summertime it seems even worse; there are droves of cyclists who feel obliged to ride a 'racing bike' when riding with their club even though the closest they might come to actual racing might be a sportive of some description once or twice a year; I think that there is often bike snobbery at work here.

I well remember a friend being told that their bike 'wasn't good enough' to race triathlons/TTs on even though it weighed about 19lbs, had tribars, fairly aerodynamic wheels etc. The main objection of their (triathlon) clubmates appeared to be that (ironic bearing in mind the RTTC champion around that time...) the frame had canti bosses on it; it wasn't built for fat tyres or anything. Anyway they spent thousands (which they could ill-afford at the time) on a supposedly 'better bike' and before it arrived I predicted that it would make sod-all difference. It did, of course, make sod-all difference.... :roll: . I'm sure this sort of thing goes on all the time.

(*) as if it needed to be stated on these training rides it became painfully evident how little difference the bike really makes; if you believed that you would soon be persuaded otherwise. Many times someone riding some heap of junk (something that a full blown bike snob wouldn't even think fit for nipping down the shops on) would ride the wheels off everyone else.....

If you never see any variety (eg on training rides) then this presumably reinforces groupthink and equipment prejudices. I think bike snobbery is rife in many clubs these days.

cheers
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Cours » 12 Jan 2019, 12:14pm

Brucey wrote:Machines for actual racing on have always been built in particular ways
<SNIP - full quotation of the posting immediately above = waste of our screen space>
. I think bike snobbery is rife in many clubs these days.

Thats just wrong. The vast majority of people who are buying £1000+ bikes fit into your above 'categories'. So you're saying all those hundreds of thousands of cyclists who make up Evans/Halfords/Decathlon clientele are unimaginative/stupid/bike snobs? Bravo. You've just insulted half the regular cycling population of Great Britain.

If there's a bike snob on this forum he signs himself off with 'cheers'.
Last edited by Graham on 13 Jan 2019, 6:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: SNIP - wasted space

Brucey
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Re: How much for a decent bike?

Postby Brucey » 12 Jan 2019, 12:47pm

Cours wrote:
Thats just wrong...….. So you're saying all those ….. clientele are unimaginative/stupid/bike snobs? ….You've just insulted....


quite possibly there is only one sort of person who would think and/or say those things based on my post.

I leave it to your imagination as to what that might be....
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