MikeF wrote: The utility cyclist wrote:
MikeF wrote:The real issue is that cyclists and lorries (motor vehicles) should not be using or trying to use the same piece of road (highway) space. People will make mistakes, but these mistakes should not lead to injury.
Don't agree, I'm comfortable with HGVs for the most part, I have far fewer issues than with cars/vans, massively so, even taking into account overall their % of vehicles on the road.
I first started commuting in 1987 as a teen, 5 miles into the city centre and passing straight down the middle of a major industrial area on an arterial route. Train people well enough, have people continually thinking and assessing and their 'mistakes' are very infrequent, they should also be at a level that because of the care and attention and leeway they've given that it won't physically harm someone even if the other (vulnerable) person does make an error in judgement. Pretty much what the bike riding HGV driver does.
The sick thing about most HGV incidents with people on bikes, in fact a significant proportion of all KSIs, is that police are bias, discriminatory and unable or unwilling to apply the law and the rules that they apply elsewhere. Put themselves in that same situation and the attitude would be totally the opposite. Frankly these people are no longer fit for purpose in assessing RTCs, not when they display such poor judgement and understanding.
This dereliction of duty quite literally punishes all people riding bikes, indeed pedestrians too.
Legislation will not stop people making mistakes however well they are trained. People (drivers) will look and not see at times - it's a failing we can all have.
Most people will not cycle because danger of motor vehicles is their biggest concern. Until this changes and people feel safe cycling not many will do so.
Obviously fear is a major that is preventing significant portions of people from cycling, however a lot of that is perceived not real, there are many other factors that we can change to redress that and much stems from when people are kids.
Changing the thinking through better training and legislation will absolutely reduce people from making mistakes and thinking more about their driving particularly around vulnerable road users, unless you're waiting for segregated lanes for all major routes across the country, which even NL and DK don't have??
Let's face it, even Sir Boardman has had to compromise on what he's having in Manchester and it's a 10 year plan at best, that's ONE city, London so far is a complete mish mash of mostly garbage infra, the cycle superhighway is anything but 'super'. Cycling is increasing in London despite
little or poor infra and people do put up with having to cycle on the same road as HGVs.
But in the meantime whilst waiting for sections of roads to be taken back completely (my preferred option) or segregation, improving the standard of driving is the main tool to make roads and thus cycling safer. How long do you think it will take to have segregated routes like NL, 20,30, 40, 50 years?? For most of the UK segregated infra is not going to happen in any meaningful way whatsoever, not well enough or far reaching enough to get people out of cars and onto bikes in a big enough shift to even reach 5% modal share IMHO. That would currently be a 250% increase in cycling, do you think that's a feasible target, if so how long to reach that whilst we're waiting for hotch potch non joined up not built for mass cycling segregated lanes to be built??
Sorry but waiting for segregated lanes is dreamland pie in the sky thinking for the vast majority of the UK, IMHO 'we' are too late to change things in any significant way, 30-40 years too late. At least legislation in the form of speed regulation for motors by installing devices that force motorists to adhere to limits, AI devices, better training, changing traffic light phases, changing things like parking/driving around schools and providing more cycle parking facilities in towns, cities, work places and retail parks can have an influence whilst we're waiting.