Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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pjclinch
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby pjclinch » 21 Jan 2019, 9:22am

Buffalos...
I have a Special 6 and an Active Lite and they do indeed work well without anything underneath because the pile inner is the base layer, by deliberate design.

The problem with the Aquatherm lined stuff is it does need to be properly cold to use them. Even with all the vents undone and the sleeves rolled up the Special 6 is a boil-in-the-bag exercise at anything much over about 5 degrees. Below that it's my Weapon of Choice on a ride. The micropile lined stuff like the Teclite and Active Lite are good at higher temperatures for brisk autumn and spring days or milder winter ones.

Your problem in general with respect to this thread is the OP is looking to see if money can be saved, and while I'd say Buffalos represent value for money they're not cheap.

Pete.
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SimonCelsa
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby SimonCelsa » 21 Jan 2019, 9:27am

RE The Strathpuffer" a guy I know only went and won it! In the 2 man team he, who is an ex jockey turned roadie who hasn’t been on a MtB since a teenager, teamed with an 18 yo, won it. He says he’s not sure whether he’ll be back next year to defend it though :lol:


He did well then, up against Mark Beaumont & his mechanic Alex Glasgow who together finished in the top 5 I think!

Regarding the price of Buffalo, yes, it is expensive but I get the majority of my stuff 'used but good' & would seldom pay more than £60/70 for any item of clothing. Usually you get a good bargain if you're patient!

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Paulatic
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Paulatic » 21 Jan 2019, 9:42am

pjclinch wrote:
The problem with the Aquatherm lined stuff is it does need to be properly cold to use them. Even with all the vents undone and the sleeves rolled up the Special 6 is a boil-in-the-bag exercise at anything much over about 5 degrees. Below that it's my Weapon of Choice on a ride.

Pete.


It’s exactly this often said comment which put me off buying a buffalo for many years. Eventually I ignored it and bought one. We are all different I’m a cold tattie and can comfortably wear one between October and May upto 12 C without a drop of sweat I’d say. :D
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andrew_s
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby andrew_s » 21 Jan 2019, 10:29am

I like the Brynje Super Thermo stuff.

It's a polypropylene mesh, with holes maybe 4 mm across. The air layer in the holes provides good insulation, and it soaks up virtually no water (little enough that you can pretty much wear it straight out of the washing machine, assuming a descent spin).
If you misjudge the insulation/work rate ratio, you still generate sweat, but it all goes into the next layer out where it doesn't directly cool you. You also get a better than average cooling effect if you unzip the outer layers to let a breeze in.

paddler
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby paddler » 21 Jan 2019, 11:39am

I have a Buffalo Special Six too and agree that it can get too hot. I bought mine for canoeing in very cold weather, for which it's great. Too hot for me to cycle in.

My understanding was that they were designed for coaches etc who would normally be fairly inactive.

As for base layers generally, I bought two Mountain Warehouse Merino ones when I did the Appalachian Trail - I was disappointed with them as they shrunk and just were no good. They weren't looked after mind you, just chucked in a washing machine with everything else.

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Witterings
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Witterings » 21 Jan 2019, 11:56am

thelawnet wrote:
iandriver wrote:In practice, I do find some items have much nicer feeling material against the skin. That doesn't always equate to price. Decathlon seem to be really on top of their game right now. Their own brand base layers are doing everything I need them too on a sensible budget. I suspect the sports direct type outlets will vary hugely in quality.


I had a look at the Decathlon cycling base layers

£8 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/100-long-sl ... 02034.html
£13 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/500-long-sl ... 69383.html
£22.50 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/roadr-900-b ... 02116.html
£30 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/920-long-sl ... 01842.html

The latter two seem to be the same except there is an extra outer mesh layer. The cheapest has no lycra, and the £22.50 eskews polyester, present in the cheaper ones. There's a clear 'bad, better, good, best' hierarchy, except that a £60 Rapha Merino jobby is still likely better still, but there is still something in the middle.

At any rate if you avoid Decathlon's very cheapest stuff, the others are ok. But their 'best' is rarely as good as the premium competition (which obviously costs twice as much, so....)


Thank you for that much appreciated!!!

I had a look at the Buffalo Mountain Shirts and thought they'd be too hot compared to other things I've tried in the past ... I also think I'd rather a base layer next to the skin that soaks up the sweat and is easier to chuck in the wash than the jacket especially as my problem is time between rides which'd mean I needed a couple of the buffalo mountain shirts.

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pjclinch
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby pjclinch » 21 Jan 2019, 3:16pm

Witterings wrote:I had a look at the Buffalo Mountain Shirts and thought they'd be too hot compared to other things I've tried in the past ... I also think I'd rather a base layer next to the skin that soaks up the sweat and is easier to chuck in the wash than the jacket especially as my problem is time between rides which'd mean I needed a couple of the buffalo mountain shirts.


The Teclite and the Active Lite are substantially cooler. You can wear them with base layers if you want, though there isn't any particular need unless you're topping up insulation levels. The (micro)pile in the Buffalos doesn't soak up sweat but wicks it out to the Pertex layer where it spreads to evaporate. I find in practice that as long as it's not too warm for the garment generally they're the least clammy, most comfortable things going. If I push it and start sweating things get clammy for a little, but as soon as the effort drops things rapidly dry off.

Chucking a Buffalo in the wash isn't much more complicated than anything else. You should use pure soap (same goes for most external layers) and a cool wash, but other than that it's just another wash. And if you take it out and put it straight on it'll be dry in a few minutes as long as you're active. However, since it moves sweat out rather than soaking it up it doesn't need as much washing as a normal base layer IME.

Pete.
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Sweep
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Sweep » 21 Jan 2019, 6:44pm

andrew_s wrote:I like the Brynje Super Thermo stuff.

It's a polypropylene mesh, with holes maybe 4 mm across. The air layer in the holes provides good insulation, and it soaks up virtually no water (little enough that you can pretty much wear it straight out of the washing machine, assuming a descent spin).
If you misjudge the insulation/work rate ratio, you still generate sweat, but it all goes into the next layer out where it doesn't directly cool you. You also get a better than average cooling effect if you unzip the outer layers to let a breeze in.


I have some of these but haven't used for a while since I discovered merino.

But yes they are excellent and show that sometimes the old ideas (string vest - much mocked when I was younger) are still good, albeit with modern materials. They are excellent for touring for the reasons you say. Dry in no time. Also damn tough. And can also be worn when it's warm.

They can be hard to find - but I did wander into a bike shop in southern Italy and see some - quite an accolade for of course Italians know a thing or two about cycling. And materials. Might dig mine out again.

Feel free to add a link if you know a handy supplier.
Sweep

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andrew_s
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby andrew_s » 21 Jan 2019, 6:59pm

I get mine from here: https://www.nordiclife.co.uk/products/b ... ermo-shirt

There's also merino mesh available, which I've not tried. I'd expect it's more stink free (if you have a problem :D ), but slower drying.

slowster
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby slowster » 21 Jan 2019, 7:06pm

Sweep wrote:
andrew_s wrote:I like the Brynje Super Thermo stuff.

It's a polypropylene mesh, with holes maybe 4 mm across. The air layer in the holes provides good insulation, and it soaks up virtually no water (little enough that you can pretty much wear it straight out of the washing machine, assuming a descent spin).
If you misjudge the insulation/work rate ratio, you still generate sweat, but it all goes into the next layer out where it doesn't directly cool you. You also get a better than average cooling effect if you unzip the outer layers to let a breeze in.


I have some of these but haven't used for a while since I discovered merino.

But yes they are excellent and show that sometimes the old ideas (string vest - much mocked when I was younger) are still good, albeit with modern materials. They are excellent for touring for the reasons you say. Dry in no time. Also damn tough. And can also be worn when it's warm.

They can be hard to find - but I did wander into a bike shop in southern Italy and see some - quite an accolade for of course Italians know a thing or two about cycling. And materials. Might dig mine out again.

Feel free to add a link if you know a handy supplier.

If you tend to perspire heavily such that wool baselayers become very damp/sweat soaked, and/or find wool (even merino) itchy when worn next to the skin, and/or run cold, try wearing a Brynje mesh with a merino base layer over it. The combination provides more insulation, and because the mesh holds the merino fabric away from the skin, it eliminates/greatly reduces the unpleasant feeling of sweat soaked merino next to the skin.

https://www.nordiclife.co.uk/collections/brynje

https://ukmcpro.co.uk/collections/brynje

1066enthalpies1939
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby 1066enthalpies1939 » 21 Jan 2019, 9:45pm

I use M and S thermals , I find they keep me warm standing on corners whilst doing cycling training

https://www.marksandspencer.com/l/men/u ... croll=2600

thirdcrank
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jan 2019, 10:05pm

I rather like the original Helly Hansen Lifa stuff. Its thin and dries easily. New versions don't stink like those from the '80's.


A shot of Dettol or similar in the wash is effective.

Cours
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Cours » 22 Jan 2019, 6:19am

I wear a cheap merino long sleeve top as a base layer and can confirm it stays stink free for longer!

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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Oldjohnw » 22 Jan 2019, 7:20am

I avoid anything with the word 'thermal'!
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Sweep
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Re: Base Layers ... Much Difference Between Them

Postby Sweep » 22 Jan 2019, 12:37pm

Cours wrote:I wear a cheap merino long sleeve top as a base layer and can confirm it stays stink free for longer!


It's true - must admit I found it very hard to believe at first. As long as you are clean before putting it on, you don't need to wash merino that much at all, especially when not doing tough day rides.
Sweep