** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
No doubt the statisticians are hard at work.

[Mick F]

Mains plugs and sockets ................

I suddenly occurred to me when we were in Benidorm last year about how/why our plugs go upside down into the Continental adapters.
They have their live connection on the left, whilst we have them on the right. Obvious really.

It must be something to do with reverse logic about what side of the road we drive on.

[mjr]

Hi,
No doubt the statisticians are hard at work.

No, I think it's just updating forecasts as new data is collected. The question is: will anything make the Leavers listen to experts instead of lies before it's too late?

"For fuller discussion of the Malthouse Compromise, see Ian Dunt’s piece. He summarises it as follows: “It would not get the support of the EU, it cannot be done in time, it does not solve the problems it claims to, it is legally and strategically unsound, grossly misleading and full of lies about WTO laws its authors have not fully understood”. Otherwise, pretty sound." -- http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com ... shame.html

[mjr]

Mains plugs and sockets ................

I suddenly occurred to me when we were in Benidorm last year about how/why our plugs go upside down into the Continental adapters.
They have their live connection on the left, whilst we have them on the right. Obvious really.

Mine go either way up unless used in an old French or Danish socket that only has an off-centre earth pin, rather than the modern European ones with earth clips top and bottom. I've not noticed that in Spain - were they buying French sockets cheap?

Does which way round live and neutral are matter much on AC? Damnit Jim, I'm a statistician, not a physicist!

[kwackers]

Does which way round live and neutral are matter much on AC? Damnit Jim, I'm a statistician, not a physicist!

One's live and the other isn't.

That said you could have a balanced AC supply, with both sides providing 180 degree out of phase power, but then you have two lives which raises the danger level but only half the voltage swing which reduces it.

Doe anyone know if the continental system is like that?

[kwackers]

The question is: will anything make the Leavers listen to experts instead of lies before it's too late?

LOL!

The leavers have gone from wanting a deal in the customs union and suggesting a second referendum on the final deal might be a good thing to machine gunning anyone who doesn't want to crash out of the EU.

When they realise they might not be in the WTO either then no doubt leaving *all* trade organisations was always their plan and the members of the WTO are just being obstructive and protectionist for no good reason.

Brexit gets less sane with every passing day.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Hi,
No doubt the statisticians are hard at work.

The question is: will anything make the Leavers listen to experts instead of lies before it's too late?

"As we already know, at the referendum Leave won 51.89 per cent of the vote and Remain won 48.11 per cent. The Electoral Commission reports that the overall turnout was 72.21 percent. These figures imply that 34.73 per cent of the entire electorate voted to Remain."
So-
27.79 could not be bothered
34.73 wanted to stay
37.48 were looney!

Experts in your opinion.
Is that what you say in political face to face discussions, are these the words you use "Looney"?
Maybe stop the name calling and keep to discussing what happening not what you personally wish could be true or not?

I still voted leave.
My emphasis in text.

[Mick F]

Does which way round live and neutral are matter much on AC? Damnit Jim, I'm a statistician, not a physicist!

One's live and the other isn't.

That said you could have a balanced AC supply, with both sides providing 180 degree out of phase power, but then you have two lives which raises the danger level but only half the voltage swing which reduces it.

Doe anyone know if the continental system is like that?

Good question, but I expect it's the same as ours. Neutral is earthed at points along the supply lines. Any voltage on the neutral line in your home is inductively induced, but it's minimal .......... or should be.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Real earth or electrical earth, cant remember but there can be potential between the two?
Digressing I was thinking of SSD's.

[kwackers]

More guessing of opinions of 17.4 million voters?

No guessing, just quoting what they were after at the beginning of the process and comparing it to what they're after now.
Easy to prove, look it up yourself.

Just out of interest, do you think the current scenario is on par with what we were promised? You remember surely, "the easiest negotiation in history", "we could simply adopt the Norway option", "they need us more than we need them", "companies leaving is just project fear".

Saying it's getting less sane is IMO a fact.
If you don't think so I'd be interested in what you actually thought brexit would be and what you thought the process would be.
Surely you had a "gut feeling" for how you thought it would happen?

[bovlomov]

Experts in your opinion.

You keep going back to this.
Obviously 'expertise' is a concept you don't like. So how else do we judge?

I've explained how I do it. It's not perfect, but it ensures reasonably consistent outcomes. There are some politicians and commentators whose arguments are rational and based on evidence, and they have proved themselves over two years. There are others - mostly on the Brexity side of the argument - who make bald assertions and deal in empty slogans. They rarely give detail, and if they do provide links, the links don't support their argument. I give you Farage, Fraser Nelson, Richard Tice, Tim Martin, Hannan, Lilley, Delingpole, Dorries, Bridgen, Francois, Johnson, Raab, Davis, Fox.

There's something to be said for pure instinct unadulterated by facts. But this subject is too complex, and the propaganda too powerful. In order to make a reasonable judgement you need to put in a bit of effort. If you dismiss expert opinion because all experts aren't in complete agreement, then you'll be lost in a fog of propaganda.

[thirdcrank]

A stage has been reached in this country where ignorance is worn as a badge of honour.

[mercalia]

The BBC discusses the tech soln to the border

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47047993

[roubaixtuesday]

Does which way round live and neutral are matter much on AC? Damnit Jim, I'm a statistician, not a physicist!

One's live and the other isn't.

That said you could have a balanced AC supply, with both sides providing 180 degree out of phase power, but then you have two lives which raises the danger level but only half the voltage swing which reduces it.

Doe anyone know if the continental system is like that?

Good question, but I expect it's the same as ours. Neutral is earthed at points along the supply lines. Any voltage on the neutral line in your home is inductively induced, but it's minimal .......... or should be.

Mick, I don't think it will matter which way around the pins are connected from the point of view of running whatever is connected to it.

The appliance sees the *difference* between the two. 'Cos it's AC, that difference is the same regardless as to which way around the two are wired.

[Oldjohnw]

Now that we are so close to falling over a cliff edge in a most remarkable act of national self-harm, I wonder if we might at last get some indication if which of our UK laws were forced upon us, and how at present we are unable to make our own laws.