** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mercalia]

The BBC discusses the tech soln to the border

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47047993

And its conclusion?

"So, at the moment it looks as if there are near no easy solutions - especially one that would be acceptable to the EU, the UK government and the majority of MPs."

Which is pretty much where we were before I read it.

near no easy solutions

just as the GFA wasnt an easy soln but here we are, The EU will only accept easy solns.

[kwackers]

just as the GFA wasnt an easy soln but here we are, The EU will only accept easy solns.

How long did the GFA take? How many years of conflict before we tried the sensible approach to sort it out?

If you don't want a deal then simply create red lines that nobody will accept and insist on sticking to them.

From where I'm sat the EU is looking after itself - and it's doing a pretty good job of it.
We otoh can't even agree on what we want.

If the country collapses post brexit then I'd have no sympathy for it or us. We absolutely deserve it, and tbh I'm beginning to relish the thought.

[661-Pete]

I personally do prefer UK plugs but both systems have plusses and minuses.

One advantage - if you can call it that - of Continental plugs, is that you can quickly yank the plug out of the wall socket by tugging at the cord - might be important in an emergency. You can't do that with a British 13A.

But apart from that, I dislike the round French-style wall sockets. Often they're not screwed down but merely twisted into position on the backbox, bayonet-style: easy to dislodge especially if old and worn. I would have liked to replace all the sockets in our French house with British 13A - would also save a lot on adaptors for appliances we've brought in from the UK - but apparently it's illegal...

[661-Pete]

If the country collapses post brexit then I'd have no sympathy for it or us. We absolutely deserve it, and tbh I'm beginning to relish the thought.

Trouble is, it's also 'punishing' the innocent - by which I mean those who never voted for this mess.

I recall the time, back at school, when some boys (not I - I wasn't involved at all!) carried out some sort of prank, iirc they somehow manhandled some of the school's furniture onto the roof and left it there. The headmaster was furious, and announced that unless the perpetrators owned up, he'd put the entire school into detention. Needless to say, there was a lot of grumbling about this (I'm sure I grumbled as much as everyone else, being entirely innocent). Certainly an example of 'punishing the innocent' for the sins of the guilty. But the detention never happened - presumably the guilty parties came clean. Question: was the headmaster in the right to threaten this?

[Mick F]

............................ but apparently it's illegal...

Illegal?
Actually against the laws of the land?

As far as I'm aware in UK, you can connect up what you want any way you want using any connection device you want so long as it doesn't upset the power distribution system people.
Building regs only come in if you want valid insurance and/or you pay an electrician to do the job and if you want to sell the place.

Nothing to stop a householder using jump leads if he wanted.

[PDQ Mobile]

Another "advantage" is that some two pin "continental" plugs will fit an English socket if one opens the gate somehow.
A sort of one size fits all solution!!

[Mick F]

EU standardisation?

[mjr]

I personally do prefer UK plugs but both systems have plusses and minuses.

One advantage - if you can call it that - of Continental plugs, is that you can quickly yank the plug out of the wall socket by tugging at the cord - might be important in an emergency. You can't do that with a British 13A.

Another advantage is that all the other types tend to be shaped so they fall with pins parallel to the ground or nearly, so there are far fewer people injured by treading or falling onto dropped plugs. UK ones may be electrically safer but ergonomically much more hazardous!

And they're not "British", but "IEC Type G" - some rEU countries use them too and in many parts of the world, "British plugs" are the round-pinned BS 546 ones which preceded the BS 1363 / Type G now common here.

Is this a metaphor for Br*x*t? Steadfastly using old-fashioned names for something we exported to the world and continue to cling to while ignoring its drawbacks... if people realise that others also use them, will a campaign start for a new British Standard to "take back control" of our plugs?

[661-Pete]

Illegal?
Actually against the laws of the land?

I believe so - but then French Laws are very cumbersome - and often flouted...

Nothing to stop a householder using jump leads if he wanted.

You'll surely know this but others on here may not. Be especially careful about running an extension lead from a neighbour's property - should you have occasion to do so. The neighbour may be on a different phase to you, and if so, the potential voltage between their 'live' and your 'live' will be a lot more than the standard 230v - more like 400v in fact. Could be dangerous.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

One's live and the other isn't.

That said you could have a balanced AC supply, with both sides providing 180 degree out of phase power, but then you have two lives which raises the danger level but only half the voltage swing which reduces it.

Doe anyone know if the continental system is like that?

Good question, but I expect it's the same as ours. Neutral is earthed at points along the supply lines. Any voltage on the neutral line in your home is inductively induced, but it's minimal .......... or should be.

Mick, I don't think it will matter which way around the pins are connected from the point of view of running whatever is connected to it.

The appliance sees the *difference* between the two. 'Cos it's AC, that difference is the same regardless as to which way around the two are wired.

It wont matter if its double insulated, otherwise it might?
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice ... ation.aspx

[Mick F]

Oh yes, spot on. Not everything is double insulated.

As for phases ..........
Lecky is distributed along the street with all three phases. Phase One plus neutral is taken off for House A. Phase Two plus neutral for House B, and Phase 3 plus neutral for House C.

Varies a bit, in that a few houses or even a close or terrace will all be the same phase. The main issue for the distribution, is that the loading of the three phases are balanced ............... but you don't know who's phase is who's.

[pete75]

If the country collapses post brexit then I'd have no sympathy for it or us. We absolutely deserve it, and tbh I'm beginning to relish the thought.

Trouble is, it's also 'punishing' the innocent - by which I mean those who never voted for this mess.

I recall the time, back at school, when some boys (not I - I wasn't involved at all!) carried out some sort of prank, iirc they somehow manhandled some of the school's furniture onto the roof and left it there. The headmaster was furious, and announced that unless the perpetrators owned up, he'd put the entire school into detention. Needless to say, there was a lot of grumbling about this (I'm sure I grumbled as much as everyone else, being entirely innocent). Certainly an example of 'punishing the innocent' for the sins of the guilty. But the detention never happened - presumably the guilty parties came clean. Question: was the headmaster in the right to threaten this?

No he wasn't. It's against all tenets of natural justice. We had a similar thing at my school when the headmaster threatened to cane twenty of us if the culprit(s) didn't own up to bending some cutlery in the school dining hall.

Never mind punishing the innocent it seems the "guilty" i.e. Brexit voting areas will be rewarded. The Tories may be offering extra money to Brexit voting Labour constituencies if their MPs vote for May's deal. Presumably this money will come from Remain voting constituencies though, of course, the offer would likely be withdrawn after Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2019 ... investment

[Mick F]

Do you oppose another vote or are you truly democratic?

This is the question/subject that comes up.
It provokes a "best out of three" suggestion. Or perhaps "keep calling for a re-vote until you get the result you want".

I know you don't mean that.

What you mean is to have a referendum on the Brexit deal.
It's not "another vote" as that suggests it's the same subject repeated.

I'm all for a referendum on the deal. We're still leaving of course, it's just a question of the deal. If we can't agree on the deal, get a new deal and then vote on that one .............. but we're still leaving sooner or later. By all means, delay leaving, but get a deal agreed by referendum first.

[Mick F]

PS:
I'm off out now.
Off down the pub, and I'll get some common sense from that lot.

We can discuss 3pin plugs, greases and lubrication, the weather, cars, the demise of the British cycle industries, pheasant shooting, mobile phone signals, and the price of beer.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Hi,
No doubt the statisticians are hard at work.

No, I think it's just updating forecasts as new data is collected. The question is: will anything make the Leavers listen to experts instead of lies before it's too late?

You have conveniently left this out of your last post

Maybe a bit more careful editing in future
Add "some of" if you like.
I don't mind being called Looney

Edited - I am all for any other ref etc, but I quote what Mick F said up post, have one for me Mick