Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

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thelawnet
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Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby thelawnet » 6 Feb 2019, 2:13pm

Study in Seattle: http://www.washington.edu/news/2019/01/ ... hborhoods/

The points

* it seems that a dockless bike hire system is better than one with docks, if you want bikes to become available to poorer people, as docks tend to concentrate in wealthier areas, whereas dockless bikes are more democratic
* most (91%) privately owned bike cyclists wore helmets, dockless bike users rarely did (20%)
* there were no more head injuries among the dockless bike users than other cyclists

tatanab
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby tatanab » 6 Feb 2019, 3:25pm

This is a little puzzling since 16 years King County extended their helmet law to include Seattle itself https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health ... afety.aspx . It also raises the question of how a bike hire (docked or dockless) system can be successful in such an environment. Hence there must be a lot of people ignoring legal requirements.

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 8:25pm

Make the most of it. Bicycle helmet use will be compulsory in the UK within five years.
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reohn2
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby reohn2 » 6 Feb 2019, 8:27pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:Make the most of it. Bicycle helmet use will be compulsory in the UK within five years.

What makes you say that?
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londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 8:36pm

reohn2 wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:Make the most of it. Bicycle helmet use will be compulsory in the UK within five years.

What makes you say that?


Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)
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De Sisti
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby De Sisti » 6 Feb 2019, 9:56pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:Make the most of it. Bicycle helmet use will be compulsory in the UK within five years.

What makes you say that?


Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)

Why five years? Why not two, or three, or any other number than five? Was five picked at random?

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 6 Feb 2019, 10:18pm

De Sisti wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:What makes you say that?


Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)

Why five years? Why not two, or three, or any other number than five? Was five picked at random?


Not really 'random'. More a sort of 'estimate'. The time is not ripe yet. The Charlie Alliston case was a push in the 'right direction' (yes, I know that that had nothing to do with wearing helmets, but no one ever lost any money betting on the abject stupidity of the right), but they know that there is some resistance. What is needed is 'the big one'. A case that they can hold up as indicative of the 'reckless' nature of cyclists. A pretty young, white female killed, for example - preferably (I emphasise: from their point of view) under five. If she's related to a senior police officer, or a councillor or an MP, then all the better. A slew of anti-cycling ... sorry, a slew of 'safety-related' legislation will follow.
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LinusR
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby LinusR » 6 Feb 2019, 11:12pm

tatanab wrote:This is a little puzzling since 16 years King County extended their helmet law to include Seattle itself https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health ... afety.aspx . It also raises the question of how a bike hire (docked or dockless) system can be successful in such an environment. Hence there must be a lot of people ignoring legal requirements.


The study of hire bike riding and helmet use is interesting as the researchers reported that in areas where hire bikes were used more than private bikes it appeared to influence the helmet-wearing of other bike riders. Despite the helmet law in Seattle, the presence and use of hire bikes by "casual riders" was subverting the normalisation of helmet-wearing. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10900-018-00599-1

Seattle police also appear to be taking a relaxed view of non-compliance to the helmet law. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/helmets-may-be-seattle-law-but-many-bike-share-riders-dont-wear-them/ The article also notes that "There are virtually no cities, anywhere in the world, that have both a successful bike-share program and a mandatory helmet law" and "Seattle has been a pioneer, dating back decades, in promoting helmets."

Seattle's pro-helmet campaigners are worried that hire bikes are leading to a culture of bike riding without a helmet. An interesting outcome.

irc
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby irc » 6 Feb 2019, 11:42pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:Make the most of it. Bicycle helmet use will be compulsory in the UK within five years.

What makes you say that?


Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)


You don't think you are exaggerating just a tiny tiny bit how much the right wing care about cyclists? After all plenty politicians of the right are cyclists. BoJo, Andrew Mitchell etc.

In fact was the last MP to propose a helmet law not Eric Marylee? Unless you think a Labour MP is right wing? I suppose it depends how far left you are?
I

John1970
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby John1970 » 6 Feb 2019, 11:58pm

londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)



It's the nanny state Left who want to try to regulate everything and tell people how to live their lives, not the Right.

Cyclists are widely disliked by the large sections of the general public regardless of their political allegiance, and when you witness the antics of a significant proportion of cyclists blatantly ignoring the rules of the road, it's not really any great surprise.
Stick to the rules, stop jumping traffic lights, stop illegally riding on pavements, stop riding without lights at night - and the anti-cyclists won't have so much ammunition!

thelawnet
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby thelawnet » 7 Feb 2019, 1:22am

LinusR wrote:Seattle's pro-helmet campaigners are worried that hire bikes are leading to a culture of bike riding without a helmet. An interesting outcome.


yes. the interesting thing here is that the survey authors have a bias towards helmet use, but still found no benefit to them.

of course there is presumably a difference between the militarised vehicular cycling with helmets and casual cycling perhaps on pavements etc, but which one is more likely to result in head injury is not clear.

De Sisti
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby De Sisti » 7 Feb 2019, 5:33am

londoncommuter0000 wrote:
De Sisti wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote: What is needed is 'the big one'. A case that they can hold up as indicative of the 'reckless' nature of cyclists. A pretty young, white female killed, for example - preferably (I emphasise: from their point of view) under five. If she's related to a senior police officer, or a councillor or an MP, then all the better. A slew of anti-cycling ... sorry, a slew of 'safety-related' legislation will follow.

Would it make any difference if that cyclist was wearing a helmet?

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 7 Feb 2019, 7:03am

John1970 wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:



It's the nanny state Left who want to try to regulate everything and tell people how to live their lives, not the Right.


Right. That 'Left' who have not been in power for forty years, presumably. :lol:
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londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 7 Feb 2019, 8:14am

De Sisti wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
De Sisti wrote:

Would it make any difference if that cyclist was wearing a helmet?


To us - cyclists who care about the outcome - and to those who base opinions on evidence (and who wish to see public policy reflect this) - yes.

To the MP who wants to pander to the white, tattooed, working class, male Millwall supporter - no.
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londoncommuter0000
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Re: Casual bike use without helmets found to be no more dangerous than regular bike users with helmets

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 7 Feb 2019, 8:17am

irc wrote:
londoncommuter0000 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:What makes you say that?


Because the right wing want it.

(or - to be somewhat less succinct: the right wing hate cyclists and hate cycling, and every single measure that they can impose on us to 'punish' us for being non-conformist members of the only out group that it's still cool to hate, they will impose)


You don't think you are exaggerating just a tiny tiny bit how much the right wing care about cyclists? After all plenty politicians of the right are cyclists. BoJo, Andrew Mitchell etc.

In fact was the last MP to propose a helmet law not Eric Marylee? Unless you think a Labour MP is right wing? I suppose it depends how far left you are?


The UK has - at least since the death of John Smith - been a one-party state. There is no mainstream 'left-wing' party anymore.

Which, of course, is why the media like The Daily Mail and The Sun are not really very far from The Guardian and The Independent in their visceral hate-fest against Jeremy Corbyn.
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