Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
reohn2
Posts: 35608
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Mar 2019, 2:05pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:FWIW I think the Flyte looks nicer than the space frame Moultons but understand why some people would disagree with me on that.
PS,anyone know how much?

The thinking behind the familiar space frame must be that a bike with suspension needs rigidity more than compliance. But this new simplified frame (Flyte picture above) just looks a bit rubbish to me. That front join at the head tube is being asked to do a lot of work. It is all that there is to resist twisting between front end and the rest of the bike, and it is a very small area of weld. I associate that sort of thing with bottom of the range cheapo bikes.

My comment was based purely on aesthetics,though there are a lot of bikes about that aren't at the bottom end of the market with the same feature,Brompton for one,Tern for another,neither have had problems with that joint AFAIA and neither have front suspension to ease the load on it.
EDIT,Just remembered Bike Friday is similar,a quality bike IMO.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

iandusud
Posts: 198
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby iandusud » 2 Mar 2019, 2:59pm

hercule wrote:- Those front forks with the tapered fixed legs (towards the back) are what I had originally on my AM. Modern bikes have no taper. I had to switch mine at one point and the stiffness of the newer forks was immediately obvious and gave much better handling.


I don't know when your original forks dated from but AM did change the gauge of those tapered tubes fairly early on after some failures.

Going back to the original post. I can't comment from personal experience on recent Moultons but I have had my AM Jubilee for 30 years. I ride it regularly as well as my 700c wheeled bikes. There was a previous comment that the small wheels give a harsh ride compared to a 700c wheeled bike. This is utter nonsense. My AM is my most comfortable bike by far and allows me to not worry about avoiding dropped drain cover and general bumps in the road that I have to avoid on my 700c wheeled bikes. It is also a great load carrier. I have toured carrying camping gear on a 700c bike and on the AM. The AM is much more stable with a load that a large wheeled bike. I believe that Chris Juden, when he road tested an AM7, said that it was best loaded touring bike he'd ever ridden.

pwa
Posts: 10080
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby pwa » 2 Mar 2019, 3:04pm

I think Brompton and Tern have both had issues with weld failures at times. Not heard anything about Bike Friday. But I'm over 6ft tall, a bit heavy, and I make Bromptons bounce when I ride them. That minimal frame spine doesn't manage my weight well. I'd not want to put my bulk on a bike that had one joint holding front to back. It is okay on a shopper bike but on an expensive bike I'd want a bit more engineering.

That single attachment point can only be for one of two reasons. As a way of making it easier for those with limited mobility to step through, or to save on production costs. It won't make the bike ride better.
Last edited by pwa on 2 Mar 2019, 3:11pm, edited 2 times in total.

reohn2
Posts: 35608
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Mar 2019, 3:05pm

iandusud wrote:

Going back to the original post. I can't comment from personal experience on recent Moultons but I have had my AM Jubilee for 30 years. I ride it regularly as well as my 700c wheeled bikes. There was a previous comment that the small wheels give a harsh ride compared to a 700c wheeled bike. This is utter nonsense. My AM is my most comfortable bike by far and allows me to not worry about avoiding dropped drain cover and general bumps in the road that I have to avoid on my 700c wheeled bikes. It is also a great load carrier. I have toured carrying camping gear on a 700c bike and on the AM. The AM is much more stable with a load that a large wheeled bike. I believe that Chris Juden, when he road tested an AM7, said that it was best loaded touring bike he'd ever ridden.


I stand corrected,but what tyres are you riding on your 700C bikes?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 35608
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Mar 2019, 3:16pm

pwa wrote:I think Brompton and Tern have both had issues with weld failures at times. Not heard anything about Bike Friday. But I'm over 6ft tall, a bit heavy, and I make Bromptons bounce when I ride them. That minimal frame spine doesn't manage my weight well. I'd not want to put my bulk on a bike that had one joint holding front to back. It is okay on a shopper bike but on an expensive bike I'd want a bit more engineering.

I know where you're coming from as a 6ft 89kg(presently)rider.
I don't know about Brompton so can't comment but but Bike Friday haven't had problems.
Tern's problems were at the hinge joint to main frame tube failing,which was a bad batch of quality control issues which they identified between two frame numbers.I believe Tern moved to another manufacturer because of it and has had no problems since.
I went into it all when buying my Tern Link N8,which only gets occasional local use.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
fausto99
Posts: 399
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 10:06am

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby fausto99 » 2 Mar 2019, 3:59pm

Small wheels are great; the acceleration has to be experienced to be believed. If you can remember the difference in feel of your Grandad's all steel roadster vs your first sports bike with alloy rims, then it's the same step again when you go to small diameter alloy rimmed wheels. It's the reduction in rotational inertia that does it.

If only the 60s Moulton F-frame was lighter. Similarly if only the spaceframe Moultons' front suspension didn't bob so much. Otherwise I probably wouldn't bother with large/regular wheel bikes at all.

Sidlaws
Posts: 8
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 8:46pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Sidlaws » 2 Mar 2019, 4:07pm

rfryer wrote:Sidlaws, where are you based? I've got a TSR that I converted to Alfine 11 last year, and if you're near Edinburgh or North Cumbria you could give it a try


As it happens, I'm not a million miles from Edi-Burger... in Dundee. If you're in Edi then this is quite possible and I'd really appreciate the kind invitation. Otherwise, logistics would likely prove difficult as I don't drive these days.

N.

pwa
Posts: 10080
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby pwa » 2 Mar 2019, 4:07pm

I would have been more interested if they had some form of braking not using the rims. Hub brakes or disc. I have blown two tyres off by getting rims too hot.

There is a 1 in 5 hill near Merthyr Tydfil that plunges down for ages, twisting and turning so that doing 50mph is not an option. I always think of that hill when considering brake types. On a Moulton with rim brakes I would be off and walking down that.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8436773 ... 6?hl=en-GB
Last edited by pwa on 2 Mar 2019, 4:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fossala
Posts: 1202
Joined: 21 May 2013, 8:29am

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby fossala » 2 Mar 2019, 4:09pm

fausto99 wrote:Small wheels are great; the acceleration has to be experienced to be believed. If you can remember the difference in feel of your Grandad's all steel roadster vs your first sports bike with alloy rims, then it's the same step again when you go to small diameter alloy rimmed wheels. It's the reduction in rotational inertia that does it.

If only the 60s Moulton F-frame was lighter. Similarly if only the spaceframe Moultons' front suspension didn't bob so much. Otherwise I probably wouldn't bother with large/regular wheel bikes at all.

On the other side of the coin they don't hold their speed on rolling hills. It's very noticeable if you ride more than one size wheel regularly on the same route.

Sidlaws
Posts: 8
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 8:46pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Sidlaws » 2 Mar 2019, 4:22pm

pwa wrote:I would have been more interested if they had some form of braking not using the rims. Hub brakes or disc. I have blown two tyres off by getting rims too hot.

There is a 1 in 5 hill near Merthyr Tydfil that plunges down for ages, twisting and turning so that doing 50mph is not an option. I always think of that hill when considering brake types. On a Moulton with rim brakes I would be off and walking down that.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8436773 ... 6?hl=en-GB


The Alfine Moultons have a manual rear disc brake.

Image

Sidlaws
Posts: 8
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 8:46pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Sidlaws » 2 Mar 2019, 4:31pm

Anyone care to quantify the speed disadvantage as compared to a traditional diamond framed tourer etc?
I don't think it will bother me, as speed isn't a priority, but it would be good to know what I might be letting myself in for. The positive perspective being that a Moulton has to be quicker than a Brom.

Good to know that the Ms separate and fit into the boot of an MX-5 -- If I were to revert to car ownership, another '5' would be a contender... the previous didn't fair too well at an impromptu combine-harvesting event :D

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 46127
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Mick F » 2 Mar 2019, 4:33pm

I've blown out front tyres on my TSR a couple of times on steep long descents.

Reason?
Look it up on this forum, but basically it was due to rubbish flexy Tektro brake callipers not squeezing properly.
Fit Shimano 105 brakes that are nice and rigid, and no matter how long the hill or how long you brake for, the rims don't overheat.

Believe me, it's true.
Look it up on here. I thought it was due to black rims rather than silver ones, but it's friction wot duz it.
Better friction in a more efficient way does not overheat 406 Moulton rims.

Believe me, it's true.
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 46127
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Mick F » 2 Mar 2019, 4:36pm

Sidlaws wrote:Anyone care to quantify the speed disadvantage as compared to a traditional diamond framed tourer etc?
I have stats coming out of my ears.

I lose one minute per mile riding Moulton vs riding 531c Mercian.
Same route, same bloke, same kit.

30mile ride will take half an hour longer.
Fact.

I actually don't care. Moulton is a delight to ride, so taking longer isn't an issue. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Mar 2019, 4:40pm

Ye cannae change the laws of physics - Jim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3k_CgzdR2s

Sidlaws
Posts: 8
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 8:46pm

Re: Moulton SST -- reasons (not) to buy?

Postby Sidlaws » 2 Mar 2019, 4:46pm

Mick F wrote:
Sidlaws wrote:Anyone care to quantify the speed disadvantage as compared to a traditional diamond framed tourer etc?
I have stats coming out of my ears.

I lose one minute per mile riding Moulton vs riding 531c Mercian.
Same route, same bloke, same kit.

30mile ride will take half an hour longer.
Fact.

I actually don't care. Moulton is a delight to ride, so taking longer isn't an issue. :D


Crikey, that sounds rather a lot, and that I'm very likely slower on a bike than are you, your minute per mile would be even greater for me! Mmm. Could it be that the same bloke on the same route with the same kit has a different attitude (work ethic) when riding the Moulton?