More cycling? Less motoring?

Do you want more cycling?

Poll ended at 3 Apr 2019, 9:54am

Transfer from car to cycle, yes!
16
57%
Train/bus -> cycle, yes!
0
No votes
Better less motring not more cycling
2
7%
Yes, even with TDC
5
18%
No, there is plenty already
0
No votes
Not if TDC is involved
0
No votes
NIMBY!
1
4%
No
2
7%
Yes
2
7%
Don't know/no opinion (yet)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

reohn2
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Mar 2019, 9:03am

The rut is an easy option due to it's convenience,lack of thought needed as it takes one(in the short term)where one needs to get to.
The hardest bit is getting out of it.
Once that's been acheived one looks at it and wonders how the rut got so deep as the bottom on the vehicle(a*se)was scraping the floor causing a lot of friction and inefficiency.

R2 being philosophical :wink:
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Cugel
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby Cugel » 15 Mar 2019, 11:47am

reohn2 wrote:The rut is an easy option due to it's convenience,lack of thought needed as it takes one(in the short term)where one needs to get to.
The hardest bit is getting out of it.
Once that's been acheived one looks at it and wonders how the rut got so deep as the bottom on the vehicle(a*se)was scraping the floor causing a lot of friction and inefficiency.

R2 being philosophical :wink:


Well, rut-exiting is easy or not depending not so much on the rut but on it's whereabouts and context. I will employ a Fforest Brechfa analogy ....

The wide gravel paths are easy to walk and even the potholes get repaired toot-sweet so the lorries don't break their axle. One may go along admiring the views and forest to either side. They are nice ruts, as ruts go. (Better than a back-alley in Peckham, anyway).

There are older tracks that are now redundant to the foresters, as they go into areas of relatively recent planting. These too are easy to traverse, even if there is a pothole, flooded bit or a tree across. Scared-y-cats avoid them so they are often pristine i' the flora; and perhaps enfaunarated.

Some very old tracks are now mossy, flooded, muddy, trap-doored with moss-covered trip-root and likely to suck off a boot. There are serious tangled bits where trees have spread, fallen or otherwise encroached. One may go along them and still be guided but likely to suffer a faux-pas, from a mere wet foot to a serious clonk in the shin or even a tumble into a deep spikey mud 'ole!

Then there is the temptation to wander into a sun-dappled glade, with no footpath just a beckoning faerie dell. One stumbled on and soon gets lost. Tanglewood rears up, as do various goblin-traps. Perhaps one will come across a skellington or two, where others have unwisely wandered and been absorbed............

*********
I do try to keep out of the deeper ruts. Somehow I seem to merely enter some other ruts, where there was once more traffic which has now gone down the rut-motorways. I fear becoming an entangled skellington, perhaps via a long and degrading wander through the ever-more spikey tanglewood found in the less-frequented areas of human habits & habitats, such as shop doorways at night and below the concrete underpass.

Even the sun-dappled glades can hide an adder or two.

Cugel, an old dog anxious to learn new tricks, including how to loosen the habit-ropes without falling into a bogey-hole.

pwa
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby pwa » 15 Mar 2019, 11:59am

I went walking, using an OS Explorer map and a GPS, in the hills behind Margam Park a few days ago. There are a lot of forestry roads there, but I was trying to follow a Public Footpath when I found that on a steep descent where it zig-zagged it had become an informal downhill MTB track with berms. I was definitely on the Public Footpath (not bridleway) but at any moment I faced being clobbered by an MTB descending at speed. I descended and got off that path at the earliest opportunity. It was hemmed in by dense gorse and other scrub so walking alongside it was not an option.

A bit further on I encountered a herd of red deer, not too bothered by my presence.

reohn2
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Mar 2019, 1:40pm

PWA
The inconsiderate aren't all driving about in cars :?
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brynpoeth
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Mar 2019, 7:17am

pwa wrote:I went walking
..
trying to follow a Public Footpath when I found that on a steep descent where it zig-zagged it had become an informal downhill MTB track with berms. I was definitely on the Public Footpath (not bridleway) but at any moment I faced being clobbered by an MTB descending at speed. I descended and got off that path at the earliest opportunity
..

An informal downhill track, that is a wrong sort of cycling and should be restricted, much too scary for me, I would not even try it

Have you informed the authorities, can something be done?
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Cugel
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby Cugel » 16 Mar 2019, 8:56am

pwa wrote:I went walking, using an OS Explorer map and a GPS, in the hills behind Margam Park a few days ago. There are a lot of forestry roads there, but I was trying to follow a Public Footpath when I found that on a steep descent where it zig-zagged it had become an informal downhill MTB track with berms. I was definitely on the Public Footpath (not bridleway) but at any moment I faced being clobbered by an MTB descending at speed. I descended and got off that path at the earliest opportunity. It was hemmed in by dense gorse and other scrub so walking alongside it was not an option.

A bit further on I encountered a herd of red deer, not too bothered by my presence.


In Fforest Brechfa there are a number of MTB tracks dedicated to the purpose. They have berms, jumps and so forth with a well-maintained gravel bed containing only the odd puddle. They often parallel a public footpath or bridleway, with a sign-on-a-post differentiating the MTB track from the footpath/bridleway. The MTB track signs contain a pic of horse and walker, each with a red circle & slash emblem across them. One would be unwise to walk on an MTB track as there are lots of fast downhill blind bends.....

The footpaths and bridleways are not so well maintained as the MTB tracks. The footpaths are often muddy, flooded or clogged with tree detritus. I suspect this is because they are very little used - there are so many wide, firm gravel roads to walk instead, usually joining the same points as the footpaths but by a more circuitous route.

Strangely, despite the wonderful set of facilities (footpaths excepted perhaps) me and t'ladywife rarely see anyone at all on our 4 - 10 mile daily collie walks. In 70 days in a row, now, of walking in Brechfa we've seen others walking dogs on maybe six or eight occasions; one runner (same one twice) and a few fforest inspection vans that seem to drive the whole forest daily looking for fallen trees, bad ruts or potholes and similar damage which is repaired within a few days.

Perhaps it'll change in Spring and summer? Perhaps we'll see an actual mountain bike or horse rider, rather than a couple of tyre or hoof tracks about once a fortnight?

Meanwhile, all that fforest is mine! :-)

Cugel

pwa
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby pwa » 16 Mar 2019, 9:28am

Cugel wrote:
pwa wrote:I went walking, using an OS Explorer map and a GPS, in the hills behind Margam Park a few days ago. There are a lot of forestry roads there, but I was trying to follow a Public Footpath when I found that on a steep descent where it zig-zagged it had become an informal downhill MTB track with berms. I was definitely on the Public Footpath (not bridleway) but at any moment I faced being clobbered by an MTB descending at speed. I descended and got off that path at the earliest opportunity. It was hemmed in by dense gorse and other scrub so walking alongside it was not an option.

A bit further on I encountered a herd of red deer, not too bothered by my presence.


In Fforest Brechfa there are a number of MTB tracks dedicated to the purpose. They have berms, jumps and so forth with a well-maintained gravel bed containing only the odd puddle. They often parallel a public footpath or bridleway, with a sign-on-a-post differentiating the MTB track from the footpath/bridleway. The MTB track signs contain a pic of horse and walker, each with a red circle & slash emblem across them. One would be unwise to walk on an MTB track as there are lots of fast downhill blind bends.....

The footpaths and bridleways are not so well maintained as the MTB tracks. The footpaths are often muddy, flooded or clogged with tree detritus. I suspect this is because they are very little used - there are so many wide, firm gravel roads to walk instead, usually joining the same points as the footpaths but by a more circuitous route.

Strangely, despite the wonderful set of facilities (footpaths excepted perhaps) me and t'ladywife rarely see anyone at all on our 4 - 10 mile daily collie walks. In 70 days in a row, now, of walking in Brechfa we've seen others walking dogs on maybe six or eight occasions; one runner (same one twice) and a few fforest inspection vans that seem to drive the whole forest daily looking for fallen trees, bad ruts or potholes and similar damage which is repaired within a few days.

Perhaps it'll change in Spring and summer? Perhaps we'll see an actual mountain bike or horse rider, rather than a couple of tyre or hoof tracks about once a fortnight?

Meanwhile, all that fforest is mine! :-)

Cugel


Glad you are enjoying it. Perhaps you can do what i do, which is to make a habit of having secateurs in my pocket so that I can improve a few metres of Public Footpath (or Bridleway) on each walk.

A neighbour of mine will soon be moving to Abergorlech with his springer spaniel and his fleet of bikes, so you may well meet him at some point. Nice bloke. I believe he cycles with the dog running alongside.

brynpoeth
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Mar 2019, 10:06am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -phase-out

50% realistic?

George Monbiot goes for 90% less traffic
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brynpoeth
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Jun 2019, 5:38am

I certainly do not want more cycling where I cycle to work, there are too many, lots go too fast, some cycle in pairs or groups abreast and refuse to single out
They should downgrade back to driving and sit in jams with their engines off
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CJ
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby CJ » 21 Jun 2019, 1:05pm

brynpoeth wrote:I think a reduction in motor traffic of 50% would be realistic

I used to think that, but since I've done a little research into the amount of driving that nevertheless persists in countries that have provided for cycling in a way we can only dream of - and consequently cycle a whole lot more than Brits do - I don't. Here are statistics in thousands of passenger.km by car, per head of population, assessed in 2015 by the OECD, for a number of more or less cycle friendly countries.

Country - thousand Pkm per person in 2015
Netherlands - 8.2
Denmark - 10.7
Germany - 11.3
Switzerland - 11.1
France - 11.4
Italy - 11.2
Spain - 6.8
Poland - 5.3
UK - 9.9
Australia - 11.5
USA - 15.0

As you can see, the main determinant is wealth and geography, with more driving in richer and less densely populated countries, almost regardless of how much cycling also happens there.
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Carlton green
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby Carlton green » 1 Jul 2019, 7:39pm

So pleased to see a post by CJ, I hope that he is enjoying his retirement.

I’ve long wanted to do less driving and more cycling but, outside of leisure purposes, it just is impractical. Our local country roads to the nearest towns have too much traffic on them for my safety and there isn’t much in the way of practical back routes. Occasionally I see some hardy riders on the main roads (single carriage ways with a ‘limit’ of 50 mph) but wonder about their safety. Accidents happen, a while back a young colleague lost his life on a straight road in broad daylight; the road had some dips in it and the person driving didn’t see him ......... A friend of my wife died a couple of years back in an accident in London, he was a very clever chap and (IIRC) an experienced cyclist. Makes you think.

My cycling is typically around my local Town and several miles out of. I can and sometime do go further but have to avoid routes to other Towns and our local Cities. More cycling and less motoring? Yes please, I’d be delighted to shift someone of my mileage towards cycling but riders need reasonably safe routes.

brynpoeth
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jul 2019, 5:41am

Been cycling to work every day for a couple of months
NO, I do not want more cycling! Not sure if the majority break the law but many do, going too fast, undertaking, overtaking
(I try not to leave gaps but they still manage it, they overtake between me and the motors, tiny gap on each side), not singling out to pass riders going the other way, following too closely
etc etc

Going too fast is perhaps the biggest problem, how familiar, Minus 99
I wish a lot of them would go by bus instead

What do others think? Anyone want bus passengers upgrading to cycling?
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Cugel
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby Cugel » 11 Jul 2019, 9:11am

brynpoeth wrote:Been cycling to work every day for a couple of months
NO, I do not want more cycling! Not sure if the majority break the law but many do, going too fast, undertaking, overtaking
(I try not to leave gaps but they still manage it, they overtake between me and the motors, tiny gap on each side), not singling out to pass riders going the other way, following too closely
etc etc

Going too fast is perhaps the biggest problem, how familiar, Minus 99
I wish a lot of them would go by bus instead

What do others think? Anyone want bus passengers upgrading to cycling?


Presumably you live in a city, dense with thrusters and strivers. These will thrust and strive whatever the mode of transport, perhaps even getting all pushy on the bus and train. The problem is that environmental factors, physical (such as crowded cities) and metaphysical (such as a competitive socio-economic milieu) program humans to invoke certain kinds of behaviour from themselves.

****
On another note, it is possible to live without a car in many such environments, particularly those that are also a bit less thrusty and strivey even if densely populated. When I lived in a small village 5 miles out of Lancaster, I walked and cycled 90% of the time, with the car unused on the drive for weeks at a time. Plenty of easy walking and cycling routes everywhere, even if they did mean getting used to walking 12 miles or cycling 30 (e.g. to go to Lancaster & back along the canal towpath or to the dentist & back on the bike, some 15 miles away).

If one was time pressed, as when having to work (spit) it's not quite so easy. With a time-demanding family, even harder. But it can be done. It's just a matter of getting motivated to do so rather than sitting in the "easy" car.

In West Wales I drive the car every day. No pavements to walk, as in many Welsh villages, with the former narrow tracks between high turf walls devoted entirely to wheeled transport. Yet even here, the car-less can be found walking these lanes so maybe I'm just being car lazy myself now? Still a 10 mile or more 'round trip to Fforest Brechfa for the daily forest-bathing would mean the forest bathing walks might be rather short. I don't fancy 10 miles on narrow roads with cars and wagons whistling past my ears, especially with two collies on the lead.

Cugel

brynpoeth
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jul 2019, 6:20pm

Cugel is exemplary in many ways but he chose to live where he 'has to drive' a lot, what happens in 30 years when he is old and weak?
I put a big value on avoiding driving, for many reasons. I plan to live on the edge of a small town when I retire, and I shall cycle a lot

Carlton green wrote:..
I’ve long wanted to do less driving and more cycling but, outside of leisure purposes, it just is impractical. Our local country roads to the nearest towns have too much traffic
..

Less driving, as little as possible, is possible :wink:
I have lived in a middle-sized town without a vehicle for many years, had a car again for a while, just handed it in to be re-cycled
Have been lucky/unlucky, made choices too
The plan is to never own an infernal combustion engine ever again :wink:
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Re: More cycling? Less motoring?

Postby Carlton green » 11 Jul 2019, 7:35pm

brynpoeth wrote:Cugel is exemplary in many ways but he chose to live where he 'has to drive' a lot, what happens in 30 years when he is old and weak?
I put a big value on avoiding driving, for many reasons. I plan to live on the edge of a small town when I retire, and I shall cycle a lot

Carlton green wrote:..
I’ve long wanted to do less driving and more cycling but, outside of leisure purposes, it just is impractical. Our local country roads to the nearest towns have too much traffic
..

Less driving, as little as possible, is possible :wink:
I have lived in a middle-sized town without a vehicle for many years, had a car again for a while, just handed it in to be re-cycled
Have been lucky/unlucky, made choices too
The plan is to never own an infernal combustion engine ever again :wink:


Less driving is possible and to an extent that's what I choose to do; if it’s only a little more difficult to cycle than drive then I cycle and my bike is used more often than my car.

Where you live does dictate a lot of choices and, of course, where you live is often a decision made with many and varied compromises. As and when we move house again I’d by far prefer to be able to manage without a car for say nine out of ten journeys. However, whilst all things are ‘possible’ some arrangements are only a sufficiently workable choice for some people for some of the time.