Traffic policing in th Wild West

thirdcrank
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Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Mar 2019, 11:43am

Not really the Wild West but Bradford, where steps are being taken.

What's being done to combat Bradford's 'Wild West' driving?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-47526816

The local authority has used its powers to ban anti-social behaviour by drivers, who now face fines of £100 for things like playing loud music.

And the police have launched Operation Steerside with a team of eleven officers to crackdown on this problem. (Others may not see this as I see it.)

One bit of apparently unintentional irony is that a local driving instructor with many years of experience in that job thinks drivers need re-educating.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 17 Mar 2019, 10:51am, edited 1 time in total.

brynpoeth
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Mar 2019, 8:16am

thirdcrank wrote:..
One bit of apparently unintentional irony is that a local driving instructor with many years of driving thinks drivers need re-educating.

It could be lucrative for driving instructors :(
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pwa
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby pwa » 17 Mar 2019, 8:24am

I'm from Bolton originally, a Lancashire mill town, so when I lived on the other side of the Pennines in Leeds for a few years I was amused to find that Lancashire was sometimes jokingly referred to as The Wild West. But now it is being applied to Bradford! Purely in relation to geography I must object.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby Phil Fouracre » 17 Mar 2019, 9:49am

I love the line in the article ‘I often walk because I can’t cope with the traffic’ sort of says it all really :-) :-)
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thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Mar 2019, 11:07am

I posted this in Campaigning & Public Policy because IMO traffic enforcement is of particular importance to cyclists.

My point about Operation Steerside is that it's reported to be a team of eleven but there are only seven officers in the pic. (Possibly more if there's somebody sitting in the car.) That's a clue. I'm not commenting on numeracy, but the simple fact is that to provide cover 24/7 you need 5+ people for each individual role. ie a team of eleven will be stretched to put out a single double-crewed car round-the-clock and as soon as they start going to court - a regular commitment for active operational police officers - then it's lost without reinforcements.

Apart from that, the elephant in the room is why does a "cash-strapped" local authority feel it's necessary to employ its own (non-police) people to deal with anti-social driving?

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gaz
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby gaz » 17 Mar 2019, 1:47pm

The writer of that article missed the obvious opportunity to describe Supt Daniel Greenwood as "the new Sheriff who's come to clean up the town" :wink: .
Roads in Kent increasingly resemble the Wild West too :wink: .

There's no denying that across the UK traffic police are over-stretched and under resourced. I've recently taken to following the Kent RPU team on Twitter. The number of unisured, untaxed, unlicensed and unsafe drivers and vehicles is alarming, even more alarming is the realisation that the one's they stop are clearly just the tip of an iceberg.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Mar 2019, 2:09pm

My own perception is that driver behaviour is particularly bad in Bradford. Although I have a Leeds postcode, I live as near to the former City of Bradford as I do to Leeds. (Both Leeds Bradford were substantially enlarged to metropolitan districts in the 1974 local government reorganization.) I no longer willingly travel through Bradford because the driving is palpably worse than everywhere else around here.

IMO broadcasting everything on twitter is a politically inspired way of appearing to be doing more than is really the case: presentation rather than delivery. A bit like a picture of a posse posing with a police car, it may impress some people but I think the baddies know the reality.
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Steady rider
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby Steady rider » 17 Mar 2019, 5:17pm

Using unmarked cars with speed cameras may be needed.

thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Mar 2019, 5:25pm

Steady rider wrote:Using unmarked cars with speed cameras may be needed.


Whatever your local problems with the MoJ, you should be aware that North Yorkshire Police seems to take traffic enforcement seriously. That's in the context of the collapse of traffic enforcement nationally, with the obvious exception of camera enforcement.

pwa
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby pwa » 17 Mar 2019, 5:27pm

Steady rider wrote:Using unmarked cars with speed cameras may be needed.

Yes, though speed is only a part of it. There is a lot of dangerous behaviour that is within the speed limit. I had a numpty today slot into a non-existent space between my car and one in front (allowing for safe distance) at 50mph. It happens all the time. If it occurred to the offender that the car they are cutting up may be an unmarked patrol vehicle that could change attitudes.

brynpoeth
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Mar 2019, 6:47pm

pwa wrote:
Steady rider wrote:Using unmarked cars with speed cameras may be needed.

Yes, though speed is only a part of it. There is a lot of dangerous behaviour that is within the speed limit. I had a numpty today slot into a non-existent space between my car and one in front (allowing for safe distance) at 50mph. It happens all the time. If it occurred to the offender that the car they are cutting up may be an unmarked patrol vehicle that could change attitudes.

Non-existent space? :? I just drop back to restore a gap, muttering 'get thee before me, satan'
..
Tc mentions NY cops taking traffic law enforcement more seriously, any figures? Have they siezed thousands of licences?
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby Steady rider » 17 Mar 2019, 7:06pm

I was looking for some research to evaluate marked v unmarked vehicles but it seems a mix may be the best option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Yorkshire_Police

Mentions losing 400 officers in West Yorkshire.

Comparing how well some forces do in terms of affecting driving standards would I assume be difficult to assess.

thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Mar 2019, 7:28pm

Purely on the matter of the comparison between marked and unmarked cars, it really depends who you are trying to impress. Everybody and everything highly visible is intended to impress the ordinary member of the public that there are plenty of police. Unmarked cars may keep the baddies on their toes.

Many years ago, the Home Office did some research which involved all policing being done in plain clothes and plain vehicles for a short period (one or two days?) without advance publicity. They took this as evidence that uniform patrol did not "work." In reality, they had not withdrawn uniform patrol which was almost non-existant but simply put into plain cars all the people dashing from call to call and appearing to the uninformed to be on patrol.

I don't know if they are still there but a couple of years ago there were signs on the A1 and elsewhere in Northumberland warning that plain cars were on patrol. :lol: You can fool some of the people ....

The other thing is that not everybody is aware of the niceties of force areas. If somebody sees plenty of patrol cars on the A64 near Tadcaster, do they always know that that's N Yorks and the other side of Hook Moor is W Yorks?

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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby Steady rider » 17 Mar 2019, 7:45pm

i think the solution is a mix of enforcement, publicity, education, social attitudes, infrastructure, laws and probably other aspects. Perhaps a few police forces should combine policy so that measures affect a wider area. It needs government to set the direction, low drink drive limit, lower speed limits on country minor roads, community work orders for some offences. Driverless cars seem to offer the best hope, perhaps.

brynpoeth
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Re: Traffic policing in th Wild West

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Mar 2019, 7:53pm

Enforcement and punishment, or fear of them, are the only things that would work
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