Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby atlas_shrugged » 16 Mar 2019, 6:18pm

A worrying theme from the police is to ignore close pass videos. Even more worrying is attempting to victim blame a cyclist when the cyclist gets killed.

Beds / Cambs / Herts have a policy to ignore close pass videos. That is stated in an email.

thirdcrank
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Mar 2019, 6:33pm

atlas_shrugged wrote:A worrying theme from the police is to ignore close pass videos. Even more worrying is attempting to victim blame a cyclist when the cyclist gets killed.

Beds / Cambs / Herts have a policy to ignore close pass videos. That is stated in an email.


This situation has been repeatedly discussed on here. People can fret about it and throw in a few reminiscences or try to take action. Getting the facts right is vital in the latter case. And that was my only reason for making the point about the NIP.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby The utility cyclist » 16 Mar 2019, 7:51pm

Title should read, bent police force yet again take unlawful action against innocent victim.

Are we surprised after their disgusting actions when dealing with the death of Michael Mason and indeed quite a few other deaths in their jurisdiction? :twisted:
And yes, Herts police won't do squat for close passes, they will lie and pervert the course of justice, they'll even threaten the victim with public order offence (which i told them to go ahead with but they bottled it and still did nothing against the criminal despite CCTV on the bus but they insisted the bus did not have it on board, bunch of liars! :twisted: :twisted:

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby Phil Fouracre » 17 Mar 2019, 9:55am

Sad, but true! It doesn’t take much for people to be rapidly disillusioned! A bit like stereotyping drivers/cyclist et al. One encounter that effects you negatively, and the assumption is that every other interaction will confirm your conclusion. Incidents like this must do a disproportionate amount of damage to the credibility of the police.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 17 Mar 2019, 10:05am

reohn2 wrote:I watched the video and can't see what the cyclist did wrong :?
Have I missed something?


Well, you know that kerfuffle about 'driving while black'..?
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Tom_B
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby Tom_B » 18 Mar 2019, 12:13am

Thirdcrank said: “This is one of the reasons I value accuracy. For some years there was an urban myth that through his gofer Paul Boateng - who I see is now Baron Boateng (of Brent?) - Blunkett had told the police not to enforce this Victorian legislation which he had just resuscitated”

‘Urban myth’? Boateng’s guidance on pavement cycling has been quoted in reputable sources any number of times:
“The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required”

thirdcrank
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Mar 2019, 6:57am

I'm familiar with what Paul Boateng said and I've quoted it on here more than once. In the early days somebody else (Howard Peel ?) quoted it with additional words which were subsequently requoted by others as though they were part of PB's parliamentary answer. To say that the police must use discretion is almost meaningless as it applies to everything, but it was eventually dressed up as a Home Office directive not to enforce this. That's the urban myth.

They do say that actions speak louder than words and David Blunkett's actions were to extend fixed penalties to s72 of the Highways Act 1835 - legislation which had been largely unenforced for decades - and to give the power to issue those penalties to his own then recent creation, Police Community Support Officers. At one time, this was the only power they had. As most saw being a PCSO as a career step to joining the police, it's not surprising that they filled their boots.

Incidentally, I mentioned this in response to a suggestion that increased police powers more generally were all introduced by Tory governments. In the context of pavement cycling IIRC, the power of arrest for any offence - including summary offences such as this - was introduced in 2005.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/15/section/110

PS I've checked and a search suggests I've posted the word "Boateng" a couple of dozen times in the last decade. :oops: Here's something I prepared earlier:
viewtopic.php?p=439894#p439894

londoncommuter0000
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby londoncommuter0000 » 18 Mar 2019, 8:15am

thirdcrank wrote:Incidentally, I mentioned this in response to a suggestion that increased police powers more generally were all introduced by Tory governments. In the context of pavement cycling IIRC, the power of arrest for any offence - including summary offences such as this - was introduced in 2005.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/15/section/110


There was a tory government in 2005. In fact, we have had tory governments since 1979.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Mar 2019, 8:18am

thirdcrank wrote:I'd have to say that the 'New' Labour government led by thatcherite T Blair introduced fixed penalties for pavement cycling under the aegis of the-now Baron Blunkett (of Brightside?) during his inter-resignation spell as Home Secretary.

This is one of the reasons I value accuracy. For some years there was an urban myth that through his gofer Paul Boateng - who I see is now Baron Boateng (of Brent?) - Blunkett had told the police not to enforce this Victorian legislation which he had just resuscitated. :lol:



Confirmed as still being "current guidance in 2004 in a letter from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004

“CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)


Further reiterated by ACPO in 2014

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Cunobelin
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Mar 2019, 8:21am

Phil Fouracre wrote:Sad, but true! It doesn’t take much for people to be rapidly disillusioned! A bit like stereotyping drivers/cyclist et al. One encounter that effects you negatively, and the assumption is that every other interaction will confirm your conclusion. Incidents like this must do a disproportionate amount of damage to the credibility of the police.



For every person disillusioned by this event, there will be a dozen who are delighted

The question is which group should be listened to

thirdcrank
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Re: Victim of close pass sends video to police; they reply with threat of prosecution

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Mar 2019, 8:35am

Cunobelin wrote: ... Further reiterated by ACPO in 2014


Is there a link for that? I'm not doubting what you say; I'd just be interested to know the words used.

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PS One recurrent theme has been the issue of somebody reporting another road user to the police, only to find that the sword of justice cuts both ways:-

Derbyshire M1 999 call driver 'forgot he was drunk'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-47610816


:lol:

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PS I've searched unsuccessfully for a link to any ACPO/NPCC policy on this