E-Bikes rules/Law

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
BrightonRock
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby BrightonRock » 5 Apr 2019, 4:15am

I had an E bike whizz past me the other day at what must have been 30mph+ (on the flat), obviously it must have been deregulated. What would be the consequences for the rider at such speeds if stopped by the police?

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 5 Apr 2019, 8:34am

Off to court for all the document offences, licence (presuming he didn't have a motorcycle licence), mot, insurance etc, maybe number plate and con and use offences, anything the creative Bobby can think of. Its all jolly japes on the road, but it's not so much fun when they get 10 points, a fine, and a confiscation order. Even worse, no insurance is a dishonesty matter and counts as an actual criminal record, not merely a motoring offence.

I only put one before a beak before I retired, but I see them about regularly now. The other evening I saw one much as you described. I was (relatively for me) belting along at 22mph on the flat and a lad came past me like I was stood still. MTB with the battery on the rack, no pedalling, must've been 35 or 40mph. It's people like that who will ruin it for everyone and they'll either be banned entirely or we'll end up with NI type regs if we're lucky. I don't trust Chris Grayling to look kindly upon us if the pressure is brought to bear over the matter.
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hemo
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby hemo » 5 Apr 2019, 9:40am

For high speed above 30mph the tell tale sign usually is the sign of a larger diameter Direct Drive hub motor in the rim, some soup them up a bit by using greater amperage controllers and more then 48v. The exact tech used is hard to know with out closer inspection.
Any mid drive bike with Bosch,Yam,Shimano etc are easily modded to go to about 30mph for about £120 with a dongle.
Then of course there are speed pedelecs that are used which can go faster then 30mph.

BrightonRock
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby BrightonRock » 5 Apr 2019, 6:36pm

I have been tempted in the past to buy an off roader and mod it to do 25mph+. The only reason for this is because I've done a fair bit of bothy touring in the past, and getting off late trains to do 10 miles to your destination on a track can take hours with a conventional set up. With a fast ebike the opportunity to get to further away places off an evening train before the sun sets gets a lot more tempting!

Oldjohnw
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby Oldjohnw » 6 Apr 2019, 3:57pm

BrightonRock wrote:I have been tempted in the past to buy an off roader and mod it to do 25mph+. The only reason for this is because I've done a fair bit of bothy touring in the past, and getting off late trains to do 10 miles to your destination on a track can take hours with a conventional set up. With a fast ebike the opportunity to get to further away places off an evening train before the sun sets gets a lot more tempting!


I thought the rules didn't apply when entirely off-road
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stodd
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby stodd » 6 Apr 2019, 4:10pm

The rules apply on roads, tracks and bridleways. You shouldn't be riding on footpaths or off public rights of way anyway.

The only place the rules don't apply is on private land (with landowner's permission). I don't know if the rules apply on a bridleway/footpath on private land with landowner's permission.

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RickH
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby RickH » 6 Apr 2019, 4:16pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
BrightonRock wrote:I have been tempted in the past to buy an off roader and mod it to do 25mph+. The only reason for this is because I've done a fair bit of bothy touring in the past, and getting off late trains to do 10 miles to your destination on a track can take hours with a conventional set up. With a fast ebike the opportunity to get to further away places off an evening train before the sun sets gets a lot more tempting!


I thought the rules didn't apply when entirely off-road

If it doesn't qualify as a pedal cycle (which is doesn't if it doesn't conform to the pedelec rules) then you can't legally use it where only pedal cycles are allowed, such as bridleways. You have the same off road rights as someone in a Landrover - on private land with the land owner's permission. On roads (including so-called green roads) you could only legally use it if approved, registered, taxed, insured & wearing a motorbike helmet.

toontra
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby toontra » 6 Apr 2019, 4:22pm

I'm increasingly being passed in London by e-bikes doing well in excess of 20mph. Usually it's only mildly irritating (I hate being overtaken by other "cyclists" :wink: ) but I've also seen dangerous weaving and overtaking. This is only going to increase and I can't see these adapted machines being monitored/policed any time soon.

BrightonRock
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby BrightonRock » 6 Apr 2019, 4:32pm

toontra wrote:I'm increasingly being passed in London by e-bikes doing well in excess of 20mph. Usually it's only mildly irritating (I hate being overtaken by other "cyclists" :wink: ) but I've also seen dangerous weaving and overtaking. This is only going to increase and I can't see these adapted machines being monitored/policed any time soon.


I think as the uptake of e-bikes quickens apace, the speed restrictions are going to have to be seriously considered. 40 or even 50km/h is much more sensible restriction (the current generation of electric mopeds and CityCoco bikes are restricted to 50)

If e bikes are ever to challenge the use of cars for journeys under 10km they have to compete for journey times. I was in Copenhagen recently where E Scooters have taken off big time. There's a 50km restriction but no insistence on helmets/insurance.

I think the current legislation will have to move rapidly with the times. I'd love to see 50% less cars on the road and 100% more e bikes but it's not going to happen with the current speed restrictions...

Just an aside, but one of the hottest selling gizmos in my lbs is a dongle which knocks the Bosch mid drive to 40km/h plus. I think what's happening here is that need and practicality are racing ahead of legislation.

It was ever thus!

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andrew_s
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby andrew_s » 6 Apr 2019, 10:08pm

toontra wrote:I'm increasingly being passed in London by e-bikes doing well in excess of 20mph. Usually it's only mildly irritating (I hate being overtaken by other "cyclists" :wink: ) but I've also seen dangerous weaving and overtaking. This is only going to increase and I can't see these adapted machines being monitored/policed any time soon.

As you say, the police have better things to do with their time than chase derestricted e-bikes, so nothing's going to happen in the short to medium term, any more than the enforcement of the requirement for a fixed wheel bike to have a front brake happened.
Any rider of such a bike unfortunate enough to skittle an oblivious pedestrian who's concentrating on their phone rather than the traffic will doubtless get the book thrown at them (Charlie Alliston got 3.5 years chokey), and there may or may not be a post-event purge on other such riders.

hemo
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby hemo » 6 Apr 2019, 10:59pm

stodd wrote:The rules apply on roads, tracks and bridleways. You shouldn't be riding on footpaths or off public rights of way anyway.

The only place the rules don't apply is on private land (with landowner's permission). I don't know if the rules apply on a bridleway/footpath on private land with landowner's permission.


Rules still apply to any private land with public access.

hemo
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby hemo » 6 Apr 2019, 10:59pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
BrightonRock wrote:I have been tempted in the past to buy an off roader and mod it to do 25mph+. The only reason for this is because I've done a fair bit of bothy touring in the past, and getting off late trains to do 10 miles to your destination on a track can take hours with a conventional set up. With a fast ebike the opportunity to get to further away places off an evening train before the sun sets gets a lot more tempting!


I thought the rules didn't apply when entirely off-road



Wrong.

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Cunobelin
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Apr 2019, 10:46am

hemo wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
BrightonRock wrote:I have been tempted in the past to buy an off roader and mod it to do 25mph+. The only reason for this is because I've done a fair bit of bothy touring in the past, and getting off late trains to do 10 miles to your destination on a track can take hours with a conventional set up. With a fast ebike the opportunity to get to further away places off an evening train before the sun sets gets a lot more tempting!


I thought the rules didn't apply when entirely off-road



Wrong.



Off-Road and "Private Land" are two different legal distinctions. If you wish to use it only in the grounds of your stately home, and never leave past the gates, that is on "Private Land" and technically OK. However as soon as you get on to a path, road or Byway, it is Off-Road, and your machine is illegal

I also believe there are some restrictions at point of sale because there have been issues with illegal bikes being sold as road legal

BrightonRock
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby BrightonRock » 7 Apr 2019, 5:54pm

These rules and regs in my opinion are way behind the curve. If any government is serious about replacing short under 10 km car journeys with electric scooters or ebikes then you have to be thinking competitively, in terms of journey time.

I think 40km/h, or more realistically 50 would broaden the appeal and uptake of the technology immeasurably.
To stick your head on the sand at 25km/h is plain stupid. If you ask me..

stodd
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Re: E-Bikes rules/Law

Postby stodd » 7 Apr 2019, 6:13pm

I think that is partly true> BUT I think it reasonable for them to need insurance, a driving license of sorts and probably a clear licence plate as well. And that is already allowed for with current legislation. An issue at the moment is that as they are rare and unknown the insurance tends to be inappropriately high.