Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Apr 2019, 8:35pm

Does anybody believe that the possibility of avoiding a totting-up ban by pleading exceptional hardship doesn't weaken the deterrent effect, especially when some people seem convinced that a finding of "special reasons" not to disqualify is almost guaranteed?

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6629
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bonefishblues » 8 Apr 2019, 8:46pm

I can believe those who could afford to make alternative arrangements for transport might be careless about the possibility, but I don't think that the average person either believes it's a dead cert, nor relishes an appearance before the Magistrates.

pwa
Posts: 9885
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby pwa » 8 Apr 2019, 10:49pm

Bonefishblues wrote:But it's the probability of being caught, not the severity of the punishment that drives behavioural compliance.

He does get caught. With monotonous regularity, hence the copious points.

basingstoke123
Posts: 140
Joined: 13 Feb 2008, 10:05pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby basingstoke123 » 8 Apr 2019, 11:04pm

Bonefishblues wrote:But it's the probability of being caught, not the severity of the punishment that drives behavioural compliance.

Someone who already has points already has been caught! And to get close to 12 points, caught more than once. It seems that some always have points - as points expire, they gain more.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6629
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bonefishblues » 8 Apr 2019, 11:32pm

You both miss my point, I think.

This gentleman has indeed been caught multiple times doing something (although we don't know how he accrued his points, do we, unless I missed it?), but road enforcement is such that there's a widespread (and well-founded, according to many posters here) perception that one can continue to drive as one wishes almost with impunity.

brynpoeth
Posts: 10599
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Apr 2019, 5:42am

"exceptional hardship" is suffered by those who are killed or crippled by criminal drivers
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 9325
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Apr 2019, 6:48am

Bez wrote:I’m compelled to wonder what is the ulterior motive here.



A couple of weeks without free advertising?

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6629
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bonefishblues » 9 Apr 2019, 8:11am

brynpoeth wrote:"exceptional hardship" is suffered by those who are killed or crippled by criminal drivers

Indeed, for the latter in any event. But what we need is a better definition* in the particular context of this thread - if any - I know there is a significant school of thought which would wish for it to be an automatic ban, irrespective of circumstances or hardship caused.

*or better, and more consistent application, perhaps.

reohn2
Posts: 35334
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby reohn2 » 9 Apr 2019, 8:39am

The system is there to be abused if one knows the ropes,it's similar to taxes avoidance,the "loopholes" are written in IMO.
Add to that a total lack of traffic policing and you have the current free for all witnessed daily on UK roads.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby thirdcrank » 9 Apr 2019, 8:57am

Re "exceptional hardship," this is a case of unintended consequences. When compulsory totting up bans were introduced, there were cases of magistrates not imposing the ban for what might be termed "hardship." eg Driver losing their job. In a futile attempt to tighten this up, the term "exceptional hardship" was introduced. Little changed: largely the same attitudes among magistrates, well-publicised cases of people with a shedful of points keeping their licence, and unnecessary deaths like the one in my most recent link. I have posted before about the difficulties of enforcing driving bans but I fancy their are few disqualified drivers regularly employed driving an HGV.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2737
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 Apr 2019, 9:36am

brynpoeth wrote:"exceptional hardship" is suffered by those who are killed or crippled by criminal drivers

A good point that deserves wider publicity.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2025
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby fastpedaller » 9 Apr 2019, 6:40pm

In my book these poor drivers should just get the bus or use a bike - If they need a car (and will suffer hardship without it) then they should drive correctly so there's no danger of losing their licence! Simple as that.

irc
Posts: 4535
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby irc » 9 Apr 2019, 6:49pm

fastpedaller wrote:In my book these poor drivers should just get the bus or use a bike - If they need a car (and will suffer hardship without it) then they should drive correctly so there's no danger of losing their licence! Simple as that.


Correct. If someone with 9 points feels their licence is vital then avoid speeding. Simple.

User avatar
Lance Dopestrong
Posts: 1227
Joined: 18 Sep 2014, 1:52pm

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 9 Apr 2019, 7:17pm

fastpedaller wrote:In my book these poor drivers should just get the bus or use a bike - If they need a car (and will suffer hardship without it) then they should drive correctly so there's no danger of losing their licence! Simple as that.


You got my vote.
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA certified member.
Cyctech C2 hammer and crowbar bodger.
Lapsed CTC Ride Leader, amateur hour stuff from the fun old days.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6629
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Nick Freeman Attacks "exceptional hardship"

Postby Bonefishblues » 9 Apr 2019, 10:04pm

fastpedaller wrote:In my book these poor drivers should just get the bus or use a bike - If they need a car (and will suffer hardship without it) then they should drive correctly so there's no danger of losing their licence! Simple as that.

And the drivers who accrue points for any one of 2 or 3 dozen reasons unrelated to poor driving, would they be treated in the same way?