'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

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Blackredgold1964
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'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby Blackredgold1964 » 13 Apr 2019, 9:09pm

Hi,
Would someone know if a 'zero reach' stem (aka 'centre' stem) exists for 1.1/8 steerer?
I've read about it, but for 1" steerer (https://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/ ... tem-32859/)
also here, https://www.crucialbmxshop.com/crupi-i-beam-stem.html, but out of stock and 1" again.
Also preferably to be bought from a UK dealer.
Regards
Blackredgold1964

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RickH
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby RickH » 13 Apr 2019, 10:16pm

There are a few MTB stems available down to 35mm length (such as Tredz). The "zero" length stems, I think, were one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" products that didn't really take off as they had to be mounted above the top of the steerer, which tended to necessitate them being made of more parts, & you also couldn't set the headset preload with bars fitted.

zenitb
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Acor / Satori bracket/riser ?

Postby zenitb » 13 Apr 2019, 10:22pm

I use an "Acor double bracket" riser on my tandem to modify the handlebar position of my stoker - if angled backwards this could give you a zero reach stem ?

Try searching ebay for "Acor Double Bracket" and you should see the one I have. Searching for "satori angle riser" brings up what looks like the same thing with different branding.

I have used the Acor Double Bracket successfully for some years .. first as a stem riser on my daughters 24" wheel MTB and for the last four or five years on my tandem (as pictured).
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gaz
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby gaz » 14 Apr 2019, 10:14am

DNA Saucer mentioned here. Old thread, I've no idea where you'd find one now.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

peterh11
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby peterh11 » 15 Apr 2019, 7:23am

Hi,
Please can you share why you want this zero reach stem? There might be other ways to achieve your goal.

Peter H

Blackredgold1964
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby Blackredgold1964 » 15 Apr 2019, 9:26am

Hi All,
Thanks for all your replies.
peterh11: I'd like to reduce the reach on my wife's new and very small Specialised racing bike. Although a women specific design with shortish top tube the bike has 622 wheels and the reach is overall longer than on her touring bike with 559 wheels. 'zero reach' would reduce length and increase height at the same time so would be perfect.
But as RickH pointed out, zero reach "seemed like a good idea at the time" and frustratingly did not develop into the 1,1/8 size that seems to be the standard today.
Gaz also provided an excellent example of this version of stem.
zenitb: Acor Double Bracket - I've not heard of that before and it won't probably fit my 1.1/8 steerer but will keep in mind as I’ve used stem extenders on other A-head stems before and that bracket might be a slightly lighter solution.
Regards
Blackredgold1964

PT1029
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby PT1029 » 15 Apr 2019, 11:00am

Some dropped handle bars have the tops sweeping backwards a bit either side of the center clamp so reducing reach.
If you had a very short stem, say :-
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems/100-p ... amp-black/ though I have seen shorter that this one - 29" bikes often have very short stems.
and you had a set of these :-
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/ ... ack-430mm/
I'm sure other bars exist that do similar, may be check out Nitto and Humpert (I've not looked)?

the bars might sweep back pretty much in line with the steerer.
With the 2 above items, you would need shimming 26.0 to 31.8, but with searching you may (or may not) find matching clamp diameters that would do the job.
I expect the steering might be a little more twitchy if you do this.

PT1029
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby PT1029 » 15 Apr 2019, 11:05am

NB See sales section :-
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=128888

A short stem available, 1 1/8 X 31.8 bar diameter.

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horizon
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby horizon » 15 Apr 2019, 11:51am

Blackredgold1964 wrote:peterh11: I'd like to reduce the reach on my wife's new and very small Specialised racing bike. Although a women specific design with shortish top tube


I always post this in the hope that someone will either prove me conclusively wrong (I'm open to correction) or second my opinion:

There is no such thing as a women's specific design, contrary to Specialized's claims. A short top tube simply brings the saddle forward which then has to be put back, thus negating the effect of the short top tube. One possibility is a slacker head angle and longer head tube but whether they do this I don't know - my impression is that only the higher head tube has been offered. This will, incidentally, reduce the reach but only very slightly. And this in any case is hardly women-specific, men might need this too.

The actual problem is endemic to a diamond frame bike: it is very hard to accommodate the front wheel at all, even without the further problem of toe overlap. It might be better to go for a 26" wheel racing bike. AIUI racing bikes should be better because the rider tends to sit more on top of the pedals but others will have to confirm this.
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

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horizon
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Re: Acor / Satori bracket/riser ?

Postby horizon » 15 Apr 2019, 12:05pm

zenitb wrote:I use an "Acor double bracket" riser on my tandem to modify the handlebar position of my stoker - if angled backwards this could give you a zero reach stem ?



I have a similar Andros stem on my Tern folder. It sits on a T bar steering post and it is possible to fold it backwards. I do this to counter the effects of (a) a very upright steerer and (b) a very upright seatpost which requires a VK adaptor. I was concerned that this would affect steering but it doesn't seem to in the slightest.

You can see it further down this page (pushed forwards but you can imagine it being pulled back behind the bars):

https://www.ternbicycles.com/uk/bikes/472/node-d8
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

zenitb
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby zenitb » 15 Apr 2019, 1:17pm

Blackredgold1964 wrote:Hi All,
Thanks for all your replies.
..
zenitb: Acor Double Bracket - I've not heard of that before and it won't probably fit my 1.1/8 steerer but will keep in mind as I’ve used stem extenders on other A-head stems before and that bracket might be a slightly lighter solution.


Hi BRG..to clarify the Acor Double Bracket attaches to the existing stem not the steerer so is not dependent on steerer width. It IS dependent on handlebar width though and mine is for 25.4mm bars rather than the 31.8mm bars you probably have on a modern Spesh road bike... ah well.. Hmm.. there may be newer, wider ones available now..I will have a Google at some point..

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Mick F
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby Mick F » 15 Apr 2019, 1:29pm

Correct me if I'm wrong.

If a dropped 'bar bike had zero reach, would it handle correctly?
With the stem pointing forwards it gives stability as your hands would be forward of the steerer.

Could you in theory put the stem on backwards and there would be zero effect?
Somehow I think not.

Or am I wrong?
Willing to be educated here!
Mick F. Cornwall

zenitb
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby zenitb » 15 Apr 2019, 1:37pm

Mick F wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong.

If a dropped 'bar bike had zero reach, would it handle correctly?
With the stem pointing forwards it gives stability as your hands would be forward of the steerer.

Could you in theory put the stem on backwards and there would be zero effect?
Somehow I think not.

Or am I wrong?
Willing to be educated here!

Mick - most Fiets bikes have hands a long way back from the centreline of the steerer. No reports of mass casualties yet :-) :-) :-)
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Mick F
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby Mick F » 15 Apr 2019, 1:47pm

Dropped 'bar racing bike, not a sit-up-and-beg relaxed geometry bike.
The OP was asking about his wife's Specialized racing bike.

Difference or not?
Mick F. Cornwall

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531colin
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Re: 'zero reach' stem for 1.1/8 steerer

Postby 531colin » 15 Apr 2019, 6:29pm

horizon wrote:
I always post this in the hope that someone will either prove me conclusively wrong (I'm open to correction) or second my opinion:

There is no such thing as a women's specific design, contrary to Specialized's claims. A short top tube simply brings the saddle forward which then has to be put back, thus negating the effect of the short top tube. One possibility is a slacker head angle and longer head tube but whether they do this I don't know - my impression is that only the higher head tube has been offered. This will, incidentally, reduce the reach but only very slightly. And this in any case is hardly women-specific, men might need this too.

The actual problem is endemic to a diamond frame bike: it is very hard to accommodate the front wheel at all, even without the further problem of toe overlap. It might be better to go for a 26" wheel racing bike. AIUI racing bikes should be better because the rider tends to sit more on top of the pedals but others will have to confirm this.


This is like Groundhog day. I have explained all this so many times....heres the most recent one, https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=128982&start=45... 31st of March, 2 weeks ago.
Explanation about trail here, I've posted this about every month, too....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_geometry
Here is Steve Hogg on the subject..https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/portfolio-item/sensitive-issues/ andhttps://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/portfolio-item/more-sensitive-issues/ ...another bookmark.
The problem is that almost all mass-produced forks are 45mm offset. If you slacken the head angle, you must increase the offset, otherwise you will alter the trail. Head angle and offset. Not head tube length, thats nothing to do with trail.
Why won't they do it? who knows?
Specialised, with all their marketing clout, are in a great position to make a real difference here.....but it needs a big increase in offset.
"Standard" is 45mm offset and 72 deg head angle. 60mm offset and 70.5 degrees will move the bars back about 25mm towards the rider, even with a small frame.