simonhill wrote:Nonetheless, I wonder what is the hierarchy at airports. If the airline says xx baggage is OK but the airport staff say it is not, who wins?
Ultimately, the airline wins because they are the airport's customer - but they might not win fast enough to get you on a plane.
And in this case, it wasn't clear (maybe still isn't, given some comments in the other thread) that Ryanair says this baggage is OK.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
simonhill wrote:Nonetheless, I wonder what is the hierarchy at airports. If the airline says xx baggage is OK but the airport staff say it is not, who wins?
Ultimately, the airline wins because they are the airport's customer - but they might not win fast enough to get you on a plane.
And in this case, it wasn't clear (maybe still isn't, given some comments in the other thread) that Ryanair says this baggage is OK.
...and there will always, but always be local interpretation involved.
As someone who is regularly castigated on another Forum for my madness in taking a spare set of fishing gear onto planes in hand luggage (lunacy, it will be confiscated and eaten by leopards/similar, they cry) for very good reasons I won't bore you with, I can report that it's the Ground Agents whose word really matters.
...and no, I've never had an issue with carrying on, except in one single case where politeness, respect and utter reasonableness seemed to make all the difference
Bonefishblues wrote:To ask again, what do posters think would be the OP's chances of bringing a successful action?
I think if you went to Small Claims with it they would probably settle before a court date. It would probably cost them more to hire a solicitor for the day than to settle with you. Just make sure you have receipts and paperwork for EVERYTHING
I'm uncertain because sometimes it can be important to an organisation/company that they send a message to everybody else who might consider taking them to court. So they look on their own "bigger picture".
A couple of years ago I was making a claim against my council highways because their surface dressing ruined a air of my shoes (whist out for a ride and they hadn't closed the road ...). Council blamed their sub-contractors (Kier) who said they'd followed all the Council procedures and requirements. By this tine I was arguing with the Council Legal Department (no longer Highways) so I said I'd be taking them to Small Claims Court (where they could not normally recover costs whatever the outcome). But they said fine and that they would be defending the claim and undoubtedly would be sending legal people on the day ... all despite the fact that cost of replacing my shoes was far cheaper than the unrecoverable costs they'd spend defending the claim. But they need so send a message to everybody else who might think of taking them to court that they wont just give-up when you say "I'll take you to court" so many others get that message and give-up so long term they expect it saves them money (fairness and justice seems not the issue).
This thread is a sorry and all too common tale. Wouldn't it be good if a "certain organisation", which claims to represent cyclist's interests, would take this matter up with the commonly used UK airlines to clarify the T&C's ?
Despite the reservations of Psamanthe above, I would definitely take this all the way. Include everything, any expense you can think of , down to lost accommodation and rebooking fees. These are the kind of odd stories that appeal to broadsheet journalists who are having a quiet news day (this happens a lot more often than you might imagine). Get one on board, get all their contact details and pass that on to RA. I guarantee they'll make things right for you. Marketing at this level is all about what looks best for the company, and minimising any damaging critique. They end up looking like great guys and you will certainly get a very nice holiday out of it. Once there's even a whiff of tangible press blow back, they'll fold like a cheap deck of cards.. I've a friend took a high street travel operator to court and got a nice 4 figure settlement, just to keep it out of the press.
Polisman wrote:Despite the reservations of Psamanthe above, I would definitely take this all the way. Include everything, any expense you can think of , down to lost accommodation and rebooking fees. These are the kind of odd stories that appeal to broadsheet journalists who are having a quiet news day (this happens a lot more often than you might imagine). Get one on board, get all their contact details and pass that on to RA. I guarantee they'll make things right for you. Marketing at this level is all about what looks best for the company, and minimising any damaging critique. They end up looking like great guys and you will certainly get a very nice holiday out of it. Once there's even a whiff of tangible press blow back, they'll fold like a cheap deck of cards.. I've a friend took a high street travel operator to court and got a nice 4 figure settlement, just to keep it out of the press.
This is a bike in a bag. I suspect that the parallels aren't very, well, parallel
Polisman wrote:Despite the reservations of Psamanthe above, I would definitely take this all the way. Include everything, any expense you can think of , down to lost accommodation and rebooking fees. These are the kind of odd stories that appeal to broadsheet journalists who are having a quiet news day (this happens a lot more often than you might imagine). Get one on board, get all their contact details and pass that on to RA. I guarantee they'll make things right for you. Marketing at this level is all about what looks best for the company, and minimising any damaging critique. They end up looking like great guys and you will certainly get a very nice holiday out of it. Once there's even a whiff of tangible press blow back, they'll fold like a cheap deck of cards.. I've a friend took a high street travel operator to court and got a nice 4 figure settlement, just to keep it out of the press.
If it all goes pear shaped,you could end up seriously stressed,in debt,or both..
Bonefishblues wrote:To ask again, what do posters think would be the OP's chances of bringing a successful action?
I think if you went to Small Claims with it they would probably settle before a court date. It would probably cost them more to hire a solicitor for the day than to settle with you. Just make sure you have receipts and paperwork for EVERYTHING
I'm uncertain because sometimes it can be important to an organisation/company that they send a message to everybody else who might consider taking them to court. So they look on their own "bigger picture".
A couple of years ago I was making a claim against my council highways because their surface dressing ruined a air of my shoes (whist out for a ride and they hadn't closed the road ...). Council blamed their sub-contractors (Kier) who said they'd followed all the Council procedures and requirements. By this tine I was arguing with the Council Legal Department (no longer Highways) so I said I'd be taking them to Small Claims Court (where they could not normally recover costs whatever the outcome). But they said fine and that they would be defending the claim and undoubtedly would be sending legal people on the day ... all despite the fact that cost of replacing my shoes was far cheaper than the unrecoverable costs they'd spend defending the claim. But they need so send a message to everybody else who might think of taking them to court that they wont just give-up when you say "I'll take you to court" so many others get that message and give-up so long term they expect it saves them money (fairness and justice seems not the issue).
Ian
How could you possibly prove a pair of shoes fell apart because of 1 stretch of road,and rule out every other possibility.No wonder you lost,it is a nonsence claim.
Polisman wrote: I think if you went to Small Claims with it they would probably settle before a court date. It would probably cost them more to hire a solicitor for the day than to settle with you. Just make sure you have receipts and paperwork for EVERYTHING
I'm uncertain because sometimes it can be important to an organisation/company that they send a message to everybody else who might consider taking them to court. So they look on their own "bigger picture".
A couple of years ago I was making a claim against my council highways because their surface dressing ruined a air of my shoes (whist out for a ride and they hadn't closed the road ...). Council blamed their sub-contractors (Kier) who said they'd followed all the Council procedures and requirements. By this tine I was arguing with the Council Legal Department (no longer Highways) so I said I'd be taking them to Small Claims Court (where they could not normally recover costs whatever the outcome). But they said fine and that they would be defending the claim and undoubtedly would be sending legal people on the day ... all despite the fact that cost of replacing my shoes was far cheaper than the unrecoverable costs they'd spend defending the claim. But they need so send a message to everybody else who might think of taking them to court that they wont just give-up when you say "I'll take you to court" so many others get that message and give-up so long term they expect it saves them money (fairness and justice seems not the issue).
Ian
How could you possibly prove a pair of shoes fell apart because of 1 stretch of road,and rule out every other possibility.No wonder you lost,it is a nonsence claim.
Polisman wrote:Despite the reservations of Psamanthe above, I would definitely take this all the way. Include everything, any expense you can think of , down to lost accommodation and rebooking fees. These are the kind of odd stories that appeal to broadsheet journalists who are having a quiet news day (this happens a lot more often than you might imagine). Get one on board, get all their contact details and pass that on to RA. I guarantee they'll make things right for you. Marketing at this level is all about what looks best for the company, and minimising any damaging critique. They end up looking like great guys and you will certainly get a very nice holiday out of it. Once there's even a whiff of tangible press blow back, they'll fold like a cheap deck of cards.. I've a friend took a high street travel operator to court and got a nice 4 figure settlement, just to keep it out of the press.
Psamathe wrote:A couple of years ago I was making a claim against my council highways because their surface dressing ruined a air of my shoes (whist out for a ride and they hadn't closed the road ...). Council blamed their sub-contractors (Kier) [...]
How could you possibly prove a pair of shoes fell apart because of 1 stretch of road,and rule out every other possibility.No wonder you lost,it is a nonsence claim.
"Ruined" not "fell apart". Probably the same council (I live not far from Psamathe) refunded me the cost of two tyres destroyed by bad resurfacing works done by the same subcontractor in 2012. In my case, it was pretty clear: they'd been cut to shreds (no-one would go out for a ride on such tyres, not even some of the clunkers around here), I'd taken pictures of the faulty surface (with sharp stones littering it) and they'd repaired it pretty damn quick after my report. It was settled before reaching court. You can never tell IMO.
Last edited by mjr on 9 May 2019, 4:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Polisman wrote:Despite the reservations of Psamanthe above, I would definitely take this all the way......
You didn't notice my earlier comment
Psamathe wrote:...... If it were me (and I have no legal expertise) I'd be pursuing it.....
I don't have reservations. That Ryanair might defend it is not a "reservation" nor a reason not to pursue it. Double check (as I'm no legal person) my I understood that the Small Claims Court/Track does not normally award costs, so if Ryanair send in a big expensive legal team costing them thousands and you lose, Ryanair would not get to recoup their costs from you (but double check this with people who would know e.g. Citizens Advice or even the court itself).
