Looking to decide tomorrow.
Had a chat with ultralightoutdoor (who are always very helpful) and going through the options and seems down to Hilleberg (which I can't justify spending that much money), MSR Hubba 2 person (which is quite low cost at the moment) or BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 Bikepacking Tent which I've not heard of before. Apparently the "bikepacking" bit means shorter pole sections so they fold-up shorter and fit better into panniers (or across bars) and a few trivia other stuff which I view as not particularly important and considering it just as a tent rather than anything special for cycling. £460, 1360g. I'd prefer green (but we can't always get everything we'd "prefer" and maybe the light weight makes me wonder about "compromise" in that you probably lose something (strength, fabric sagging more?).
At only 1500g it's light and I assume the fabric will expand when wet but the pole arrangement should stop it touching the inner. Does anybody have any views or experience of the tent or the manufacturer https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/two-person-tents-c26/copper-spur-hv-ul2-bikepacking-tent-p10890.
Ian
BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
-
bikepacker
- Posts: 2275
- Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:08pm
- Location: Worcestershire
- Contact:
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
I had a Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 which I purchased for a backpacking trip. Didn't keep it very long as I wasn't impressed. Replaced it with a MSR Carbon Reflex which was far better.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
I've toured for a few years with a Big Agnes Seedhouse 2, generously sized for one, and been very pleased with it. So much so that I've recently bought a Big Agnes Blacktail 3, for two of us. Not used it yet, but pitched it and it seems very nice.
I spoke with ultralightoutdoor before buying it, and checked that if I didn't like it I could return it, as long as it hadn't been put up outside; so you can pitch it in the living room to check that it suits.
I spoke with ultralightoutdoor before buying it, and checked that if I didn't like it I could return it, as long as it hadn't been put up outside; so you can pitch it in the living room to check that it suits.
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Recently discussed here...viewtopic.php?f=42&t=129177
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Many thanks. I missed the other thread. I was in a bit of a rush as I need to decide and order tomorrow morning!
Ian
Ian
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Sorry, no opinion on the Copper Spur but I have the Hubba Hubba NX and it's a great tent. Would be a little compact for two people IMO (depending on how friendly you are with your companion!) but is perfect for one. Enough room for my sleeping stuff with space around for my packing cubes, food and so on.
I do like the style/design of the Big Agnes tents but they just seem a little more expensive than other brands (my tent was just over £350 including footprint). If you go for it I'd be keen to hear what you think.
I do like the style/design of the Big Agnes tents but they just seem a little more expensive than other brands (my tent was just over £350 including footprint). If you go for it I'd be keen to hear what you think.
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Looking at the link, Big Anges pitch inner tent first - so it will get wet when pitching in heavy (or less?) rain.
As I don't live in Arizona, I always go for pitch outer first in case of wet weather. (Hilliberg is outer first, or both together if you keep them hooked together when packed in your pannier). I have yet to try putting up/taking down the Hilliberg with the inner/outer hooked together, so don't know how dry the inner stays (or not) when the outer is wet. I pack the inner and outer in separate water proof bags, so the inner stays dry when packed in the same pannier as a wet outer.
I like the cyclist shorter poles idea.
A quick search for the MSR tent suggests it too is pitched outer first.
The MSR floor is 213cm long, the Big Agnes is 224cm long - how tall are you? Both look as though the lower section of inner is pretty much vertical, so the effective length shouldn't be reduced by a low sloping roof. (My Saunders Spacer Packer Plus was long enough as measured, but a low sloping roof above my head and toes effectively reduced this measurement).
As I don't live in Arizona, I always go for pitch outer first in case of wet weather. (Hilliberg is outer first, or both together if you keep them hooked together when packed in your pannier). I have yet to try putting up/taking down the Hilliberg with the inner/outer hooked together, so don't know how dry the inner stays (or not) when the outer is wet. I pack the inner and outer in separate water proof bags, so the inner stays dry when packed in the same pannier as a wet outer.
I like the cyclist shorter poles idea.
A quick search for the MSR tent suggests it too is pitched outer first.
The MSR floor is 213cm long, the Big Agnes is 224cm long - how tall are you? Both look as though the lower section of inner is pretty much vertical, so the effective length shouldn't be reduced by a low sloping roof. (My Saunders Spacer Packer Plus was long enough as measured, but a low sloping roof above my head and toes effectively reduced this measurement).
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
PT1029 wrote:Looking at the link, Big Anges pitch inner tent first - so it will get wet when pitching in heavy (or less?) rain.
As I don't live in Arizona, I always go for pitch outer first in case of wet weather. (Hilliberg is outer first, or both together if you keep them hooked together when packed in your pannier). I have yet to try putting up/taking down the Hilliberg with the inner/outer hooked together, so don't know how dry the inner stays (or not) when the outer is wet. I pack the inner and outer in separate water proof bags, so the inner stays dry when packed in the same pannier as a wet outer.
......
I agree (from thoughts rather than experience) about inner vs outer first. But I can't justify spending that amount on the Hilliberg (it would be Rogen 2 £840 probably). I'd love it if somebody could post some good justification to give me the excuse I'm lacking. Only one I can come up with is it retains 2nd hand value when I'm too old be be using it any more.
Which only really leave the MSR Hubba 2 or Big Agnes both of which are inner 1st. I've no experience of inner 1st so am really assuming it would never get put into production if it was that much of a disaster (and people with then don't spend their time cursing the thing but seem to lime it e.g. bohrsatom above. But I am very open to thoughts from everybody.
Ian
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
I've only ever had tents that pitch inner first. I understand those that pitch outer first might be more wet weather friendly, but I've never had an issue getting my tent up in rainy conditions.
In a rush I reckon I can get the inner up and covered by the flysheet within a couple of minutes. You'd need quite a downpour to get the inside soaked in that time. If it was torrential I'd be finding shelter to keep myself dry!
In a rush I reckon I can get the inner up and covered by the flysheet within a couple of minutes. You'd need quite a downpour to get the inside soaked in that time. If it was torrential I'd be finding shelter to keep myself dry!
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
You have a tent - not perfect - but you know it's imperfections.
You want to upgrade and go on tour with a tent that you don't know it's imperfections... yet.
You know the old saying - buy in haste.....
From what I know of Hillebergs they are just very well made.
I too have an issue with the cost - I tend to clumsy and I'd batter myself if I invested that much on a tent and ripped it or broke a pole.
I've always been a bit suspicious of the US brands simply because they are designed for over there. Not just climate differences but also camping differences. Free standing is definitely an advantage over there, rather than in Europe.
I used to be afraid of an inner first tent too. But the reality is I have never set up a tent in the rain. Raindrops yes, sometimes just before a downpour, but never during. The fact is that if I end up pitching a tent in the rain several things have gone wrong. Fear does not equal reality.
In any case, for tents with a combined inner & fly if you wrap it up with a wet fly you have a wet inner that evening. Swings and roundabouts.
If you really want a new tent go and get it - but only if you're sure it's what you want. If you're not sure, hold off and look for a Hilleberg bargain later in the year.
You want to upgrade and go on tour with a tent that you don't know it's imperfections... yet.
You know the old saying - buy in haste.....
From what I know of Hillebergs they are just very well made.
I too have an issue with the cost - I tend to clumsy and I'd batter myself if I invested that much on a tent and ripped it or broke a pole.
I've always been a bit suspicious of the US brands simply because they are designed for over there. Not just climate differences but also camping differences. Free standing is definitely an advantage over there, rather than in Europe.
I used to be afraid of an inner first tent too. But the reality is I have never set up a tent in the rain. Raindrops yes, sometimes just before a downpour, but never during. The fact is that if I end up pitching a tent in the rain several things have gone wrong. Fear does not equal reality.
In any case, for tents with a combined inner & fly if you wrap it up with a wet fly you have a wet inner that evening. Swings and roundabouts.
If you really want a new tent go and get it - but only if you're sure it's what you want. If you're not sure, hold off and look for a Hilleberg bargain later in the year.
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Ian, noting you’re intending to buy today I hope I’m not too late!
I have the previous version of the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 and do like the tent but I wouldn’t call it more than a 2 season tent because of the mesh inner and the fly sheet doesn’t go close to the ground. I’ve used it for a hot and dry Sep Mountain Marathon in the northern lakes where it was great, lots of room inside and vestibules with a door on each side. However, having used their Seedhouse 2 in the Highlands in early April (blizzards) the similar mesh and flysheet design led to a very cold night as the wind whistled under the fly and through the mesh. Whilst the Copper Spur does have some non-mesh material on the lower part of the inner, I’m not planning to use my Copper Spur for anything other than UK dry summer use - I did wish I’d taken it to France for an August MM though when it would have been superb.
Regarding inner first pitching, I’ve never found it to be a problem, my weapon of choice is the Terra Nova Superlite Voyager, which is inner first, and I’ve always managed to pitch it rapidly enough with careful preparation.
Big Agnes tents are really well made, quality material and light. Looks like they’ve shortened the poles too, mine has the cross poles at 54cm long. However, they are designed for a different camping environment than the UK, IMHO, but if you’re planning to take it places or use it at times when it is warmer and dryer than it often is in the UK, you’ll be buying a great tent.
Good luck, Hugh
I have the previous version of the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 and do like the tent but I wouldn’t call it more than a 2 season tent because of the mesh inner and the fly sheet doesn’t go close to the ground. I’ve used it for a hot and dry Sep Mountain Marathon in the northern lakes where it was great, lots of room inside and vestibules with a door on each side. However, having used their Seedhouse 2 in the Highlands in early April (blizzards) the similar mesh and flysheet design led to a very cold night as the wind whistled under the fly and through the mesh. Whilst the Copper Spur does have some non-mesh material on the lower part of the inner, I’m not planning to use my Copper Spur for anything other than UK dry summer use - I did wish I’d taken it to France for an August MM though when it would have been superb.
Regarding inner first pitching, I’ve never found it to be a problem, my weapon of choice is the Terra Nova Superlite Voyager, which is inner first, and I’ve always managed to pitch it rapidly enough with careful preparation.
Big Agnes tents are really well made, quality material and light. Looks like they’ve shortened the poles too, mine has the cross poles at 54cm long. However, they are designed for a different camping environment than the UK, IMHO, but if you’re planning to take it places or use it at times when it is warmer and dryer than it often is in the UK, you’ll be buying a great tent.
Good luck, Hugh
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Inner first pitching...
The usual moan about this is it's harder to keep the inner dry if pitching/striking when it's raining, but the number of inner-first pitch tents used quite happily in e.g. western Scotland and the Cake District does rather demonstrate this to be a notional issue more than a deal-breaking one.
Having said that, I much prefer a fly-first or all-in-one with a dismountable inner, because it means you can have sheltered extra party and/or garage space. Have a puncture to fix when it's sheeting it down? Take down the inner, pull the bike inside and do it in the dry. Have some people you want over for a brew and the rain's on or the midges are attacking? Far more space with the inner down and no worries about spills, taking off shoes etc.
You have that the wrong way around. If you are clumsy it makes sense to get a tent with stronger poles and much greater tear strength on the fly. Poles are replaceable, and if they go through a good fly that's easily patchable, where if they go through a poorer one the whole thing will rip in two. Also, a tent with plenty of porch space gives you less chance of cooking disasters. You are paying in part, quite specifically, for toughness.
With Hilles they are very well made, but its the attention to detail in use that really makes a difference to me. They're quite a bit more now than when I bought mine (last one was 12 years ago) but I've been impressed enough with stuff like the doors just being in the right place, and the wiring on the vents not being too floppy or too stiff, and the pole cups being so much easier to locate the end in than an eyelet and other stuff that just oils the wheels that I'd look to another.
We have a Hubba and a Hubba Hubba we picked up 2nd hand for my wife's solo trips and an extra room on tour for the kids, and they're good tents but it's a bit like the difference between a good, capable mass market hybrid and a top-of-the-line tourer. You don't need the extra, in terms of bangs/buck you're down, but there are just more bangs.
Pete.
The usual moan about this is it's harder to keep the inner dry if pitching/striking when it's raining, but the number of inner-first pitch tents used quite happily in e.g. western Scotland and the Cake District does rather demonstrate this to be a notional issue more than a deal-breaking one.
Having said that, I much prefer a fly-first or all-in-one with a dismountable inner, because it means you can have sheltered extra party and/or garage space. Have a puncture to fix when it's sheeting it down? Take down the inner, pull the bike inside and do it in the dry. Have some people you want over for a brew and the rain's on or the midges are attacking? Far more space with the inner down and no worries about spills, taking off shoes etc.
HobbesOnTour wrote:From what I know of Hillebergs they are just very well made.
I too have an issue with the cost - I tend to clumsy and I'd batter myself if I invested that much on a tent and ripped it or broke a pole.
You have that the wrong way around. If you are clumsy it makes sense to get a tent with stronger poles and much greater tear strength on the fly. Poles are replaceable, and if they go through a good fly that's easily patchable, where if they go through a poorer one the whole thing will rip in two. Also, a tent with plenty of porch space gives you less chance of cooking disasters. You are paying in part, quite specifically, for toughness.
With Hilles they are very well made, but its the attention to detail in use that really makes a difference to me. They're quite a bit more now than when I bought mine (last one was 12 years ago) but I've been impressed enough with stuff like the doors just being in the right place, and the wiring on the vents not being too floppy or too stiff, and the pole cups being so much easier to locate the end in than an eyelet and other stuff that just oils the wheels that I'd look to another.
We have a Hubba and a Hubba Hubba we picked up 2nd hand for my wife's solo trips and an extra room on tour for the kids, and they're good tents but it's a bit like the difference between a good, capable mass market hybrid and a top-of-the-line tourer. You don't need the extra, in terms of bangs/buck you're down, but there are just more bangs.
Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
pjclinch"
[quote="HobbesOnTour wrote:From what I know of Hillebergs they are just very well made.
I too have an issue with the cost - I tend to clumsy and I'd batter myself if I invested that much on a tent and ripped it or broke a pole.
You have that the wrong way around.[/quote]
Pete, I've no doubts on your tent expertise, but you underestimate my clumsiness
and my self flagellation in response to that Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
HobbesOnTour wrote:Pete, I've no doubts on your tent expertise, but you underestimate my clumsiness
If you run a Superlite Voyager you already manage with weaker poles than a Hille and a much thinner groundsheet.
There are many excellent reasons not to buy a Hilleberg, but being scared you'd damage an expensive thing doesn't strike me as one of the better ones!
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Re: BIG AGNES Copper Spur HV UL2 - Any Opinions?
Many thanks all. Last night I decided on the Hilliberg, but by morning I'd changed my mind ... going round in circles.
Eventually went for the new MSR Hubba Hubba 2 Shield. All the "justifications" I concocted for spending twice the amount on the Hilliberg were valid but were "concocted" and didn't really justify the cost. But also outlining the issues I was trying to address from the old tent did bring home to me how difficult things could get if this year's weather was not as dry, hot and sunny as I got last year. Hence my decision to go with something new (having has several very long telephone conversations with UtraLightOutdoorGear over the last month or two).
So thanks to everybody for their input.
Ian
Eventually went for the new MSR Hubba Hubba 2 Shield. All the "justifications" I concocted for spending twice the amount on the Hilliberg were valid but were "concocted" and didn't really justify the cost. But also outlining the issues I was trying to address from the old tent did bring home to me how difficult things could get if this year's weather was not as dry, hot and sunny as I got last year. Hence my decision to go with something new (having has several very long telephone conversations with UtraLightOutdoorGear over the last month or two).
So thanks to everybody for their input.
Ian