reohn2 wrote:And I'm thinking the troubles had a negative effect on you,and likewise on her once faced with it first hand.
EDIT,rewritten for clarity.
Thank you ... i'll park this one and possibly reflect a little ...
reohn2 wrote:And I'm thinking the troubles had a negative effect on you,and likewise on her once faced with it first hand.
EDIT,rewritten for clarity.
landsurfer wrote:I suppose my view is coloured by living through the worst of the terrorist war in Ulster as a teenager.
My girlfriend, Jenny, was killed in the Abercorn Cafe attack.
Schools blown up, the sound of gunfire throughout the night sometimes, burning buildings. Killing after killing after killing....
Maybe the events from 1969 to 1975 have coloured my approach.
I left Ulster at 17 to join HM Forces in 1975 and in 1978 was back in Belfast but in a uniform carrying an SLR.
Seen stuff from different views ... ?
+1Bonefishblues wrote: ............ I want her to be brought back and tried, assuming there are charges that can be laid.
Then we might find the truth of the matter.
Tangled Metal wrote:I read something about the family life of one of those three schoolgirls who left for Syria when 15 years old. Not sure if it's this woman or one of the others but the life she had started to go wrong long before she left.
Her parents split and she left with her sister and mum. Her mum started to become more orthodox on her Muslim beliefs, indeed verging on radical beliefs. She and her sister were both forced to become isolated from former school classmates and friends. They were forced to read religious texts and other very Conservative Muslim pamphlets.
It was a rather brutal control the mother had over her daughters. How teachers didn't do more about it I don't know. I believe social services had several opportunities to intervene. They failed. This girl was highly primed to find radical and extremist Muslim beliefs. If you're isolated from your own society in the UK because of your family situation and you're in a very Conservative Muslim household. You're so isolated you are highly likely to look for others online with your situation or giving understanding and support.
Basically the girl I read about was deserted by her school, deserted by social services and mistreated by her mum. Perfect target fit isis grooming.
Now as I said I don't recall if it was this woman who was in this article I read, I don't think it is but rather one of them who got killed out there in allied airstrike. However I would expect there's a similar story of isolation from her peers at school, conservative religion and grooming online by ISIS extremists who are part of a sick organisation who as the once richest terrorist organisation had the most effective terrorist propaganda organisation ever.
So whatever you're views on ISIS, it really isn't right to impose your hatred of isis or hatred of terrorism (whether due to direct experience of terrorism or not) onto an abused and groomed 15 year old. Or the 19 year old after 4 years in isis controlled Syria or refugee camps.
So that's all debatable and based on your own opinion. What isn't is whether begum had a second nationality such that Javid could legally withdraw British citizenship. He has the legal right to do that if the person is a dual national. Bangladesh has categorically denied she has any legal right to Bangladeshi citizenship. She's never applied for it so would have to rectify that before she could become a Bangladeshi citizen. As a supporter of ISIS the Bangladeshi authorities responsible for deciding whether someone has the right for citizenship if their country they have said she would be denied citizenship if an application turned up.
So she had only British citizenship. That is a legal problem for Javid in that it takes away his prerogative to be able to remove citizenship as home secretary. He still went ahead with it. This gives a very good reason to test the legal situation. It is essential to our own interests that our political representatives act within the rule of law, both national and international law. There is probably no better cause for issuing legal aid than to hold politicians to account in a court of law whether the government / ministers wins out loses the case.
There is poem about first they came for one group of society and we did nothing, came for another group and another. But then they came for me and there was nobody left to fight for me. That is kind of what taking governments to court in ministerial decisions that have questionable legality is about. Checks and balances.
So you get an answer on a court of law on Javid's decision. If he wins the case (and all possible appeals) great at she's left out there without a nationality. If he loses the case she's stateless and is probably still a British citizen. In that case I wonder what would happen? I suspect she could not even get into Britain. Javid and others have the right to stop British citizens coming back into the country I believe or at least can refuse to assist them. Let's be honest here, someone without help could not get out of Syrian refugee camp and make it back to Britain. UK authorities would need to help. The alternative is ISIS or other extremist group could probably help make it happen. That would not be a good result I reckon. All my speculation since I do believe it safer to get her back here where we can try to affect change in her and if not control her opportunities to harm us.
Tangled Metal wrote:Please stop agreeing with me, it'll ruin my right wing reputation!
merseymouth wrote:Hello again, Considering there is a real problem in the UK of people being radicalised leading to a hatred of the UK & its value such a verdict was always on the cards.
But what should we do? She chose her life path, causing upset to her family for sure. So does she wish to be able to walk back into the country to suffer no sanction for her actions?
Were she to return and find herself incarcerated as a terror risk would she yet again cry that it was unfair?
Damned if we do, damned if we don't! A curse on all religions which prefer to highlight differences rather than flag up human empathy. MM