Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jun 2019, 9:26pm

Saw a hilleberg atko flatten due to wind blowing along its length. Supposedly the most aerodynamic way to pitch it. A very good and strong tent of the single transverse hoop style like the zephyros. Still the wind on top of the Lakeland fell flattened it until I could see the occupants face in the flysheet. Didn't fail though.

IMHO tunnels may flatten but it's yours defection (better term because it deflects due to the curve if the wind often to one side but go straight flat) that stops the poles snapping.

Tents with crossing poles try to prevent the deflection to prevent the probably claustrophobic feeling of tunnel or hoop tents. This presents the issue of the poles needing to be strong enough to resist the wind. Once terra nova quasars were considered to be the go to tent for difficult conditions such as winter, stormy conditions, etc. A mate broke his due to the wind and that was in a relatively sheltered location. A hilleberg tunnel tent fit through that night undamaged.

For true wind shedding strength pyramid tents take some beating. It's what artic and Antarctic expeds used to use. The mld trailstar shaped tarp/tarp tent is a good example. Only a flysheet and centre pole but you can buy mesh and bathtub groundsheet inners for it. Even solid fabric inner nests too for UK use. Luxe do a few good ones. A Hong Kong based tent manufacturer that's imported by r&r industries (aka BPL-UK). There's a 6 man tent that's really light and low pack size. I've seen it pitched and spoke to the owner. He bought it to try out out and now uses it in the hills and at campsites despite having supposedly better and certainly more expensive tents he could use. We nearly got one for a family cycle tour to Holland. Two adults and one child in real comfort.

HobbesOnTour
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby HobbesOnTour » 10 Jun 2019, 10:40am

They way I see it, there is a weighting to be given to suitable pitching & guying. No matter how storm proof your tent, that's not worth much if you don't set it up right.

I used to have a basic Coleman Tunnel tent that stood up fabulously well to some serious winds. Yes, the poles flattened, but sprung back. The only issue was if the wind changed direction. It was quite high, with fibreglass poles and I always thought that an upgrade of that tent where it was lower and perhaps with better poles would be a great tent.

I couldn't imagine being in one of those Laser type tents for 48 hours! Nothing against anyone who does, but I'd go crazy.

A couple of advantages of the tipi/pyramid style are that wind changing direction is really not an issue, sagging material can be adjusted from the inside simply by raising the pole, as well as the fact the inners (or nests) can be very easily dropped to significantly increase the usable space. For a 48 hour enforced stay, that would be a Godsend for my claustrophobic tendencies.

nsew
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby nsew » 10 Jun 2019, 11:45am

Sweep wrote:
nick12 wrote:The army tent is cheap but maybe a bit heavy.
What happened with the ionesphere sweep? That would do the job. Not outer first but will stand up to the northern hills.

You have a great memory nick.
The ionosphere is for a quick kip on out and back rides, single night or maybe 2.
For this I am looking for something i can lounge in just a little. And have some stuff in the tent with me.
But yes. It would of course stand up to the wind. And be well hidden.


I think you’re going about the whole equipment thing in the wrong way. Looking for “budget value” in multiple items, when that presumably hard earned money could be pooled for single “expedition quality” kit that covers all the bases. As to situations where high winds may a factor, fair warning is readily available through the superb Windy app and often in the field itself. This, as someone else in the thread has pointed out, is where knowledge, judgement & skill in positioning of your shelter play a critical role. We are all attempting to attain the above whether we’re aware of it or not. Good on you for getting out there, that’s to be admired.

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 10 Jun 2019, 12:36pm

nsew wrote:
Sweep wrote:
nick12 wrote:The army tent is cheap but maybe a bit heavy.
What happened with the ionesphere sweep? That would do the job. Not outer first but will stand up to the northern hills.

You have a great memory nick.
The ionosphere is for a quick kip on out and back rides, single night or maybe 2.
For this I am looking for something i can lounge in just a little. And have some stuff in the tent with me.
But yes. It would of course stand up to the wind. And be well hidden.


I think you’re going about the whole equipment thing in the wrong way. Looking for “budget value” in multiple items, when that presumably hard earned money could be pooled for single “expedition quality” kit that covers all the bases. As to situations where high winds may a factor, fair warning is readily available through the superb Windy app and often in the field itself. This, as someone else in the thread has pointed out, is where knowledge, judgement & skill in positioning of your shelter play a critical role. We are all attempting to attain the above whether we’re aware of it or not. Good on you for getting out there, that’s to be admired.

Some fair points but to clarify, I don't consider the ionosphere budget or lacking in any way. I also tend to tend towards lower price tents (but not cheap and poor) as have the idea that they may well be tougher and easier to fix if I am prepared for a modest weight penalty. And I am. On tour I also tend to wear my more budget cycling gear for similar reasons.
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pjclinch
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 10 Jun 2019, 2:01pm

Regarding single hoops blowing flat... yes they can do that (I've been in my Spacepacker when it has), but a lot of it is down to how it's guyed. An Akto is effectively a single pole tunnel and thus takes wind best from the ends, but they're mostly guyed out with the pole guys parallel to the pole, which will provide roughly no resistance to the pole tending to be flattened. They should be swept towards the windward direction or, better still if you know Proper Wind is in store, an extra guy attached so the pole can be braced both ways and that will also account for the wind swinging around as the storm passes over.

Tunnels standing while geodesics fail... the problem with anecdotal comparisons is you don't really know much about the total differences before the failure. Could have been a pole section was weaker because someone stepped on it at some point, or was in the habit of letting the shock-cord pull the sections together and the ends starting to crack over a few years. So I wouldn't take much away except some tunnels, pitched well, can take proper flak.
On one trip I had taken a transverse tunnel (a Saudners Snowcat) as a party tent on a canoeing trip, sleeping in the Tarra. Got up in the night to take the Snowcat down as it was suffering (hadn't broken, but a pole got pretty well bent), the Tarra was untroubled. As was the Quasar next door. A pal in an old A-Frame chose to take it down and move in to the Tarra.

Pete.
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nsew
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby nsew » 10 Jun 2019, 2:03pm

Sweep. Well ok, but only ok. Not so long ago I made the effort to sell off a bunch of stuff and was surprised by how much it all fetched. I reasoned that it’s because the whole damned world is looking for a bargain and consequently paying too much for too little. Back to potentially tough situations, I have learnt at such times to assess my potential bailout or bailouts before taking a way or bedding down for the night. If there isn’t a good one I’m taking a different route or moving on. The touring / adventure cyclist is particularly at risk due to tiredness at the end of the day. Most of my **** ups, if I’m being honest, are due to being wiped out at the time.
Last edited by nsew on 10 Jun 2019, 2:17pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pjclinch
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 10 Jun 2019, 2:07pm

Sweep wrote:I also tend to tend towards lower price tents (but not cheap and poor) as have the idea that they may well be tougher and easier to fix if I am prepared for a modest weight penalty. And I am.


It depends how you choose to spend the money. Hille Red Label and Black Label cost pretty much the same for comparable models. The difference is where they've chosen to put the compromise points, with Red Label being lighter but not so tough and Black Label with more of the emphasis on bombroofing (stronger poles, higher tear strength flysheets, thicker, more abrasion resistant groundsheets).

"Lighter" isn't the only way to spend more money!

Pete.
Last edited by pjclinch on 10 Jun 2019, 3:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Jun 2019, 2:43pm

In the nallo vs quasar comparison the two people concerned are long term outdoor types, into their gear and tending towards getting good gear and looking after it. I don't know the age of them but iirc the nallo was at most a couple of years old and the quasar no idea but since he was a South African who had only been in the UK at most 3 or 4 years that's likely its top age. Either way in good nick.

As to pitch location it was at a semi sheltered spot surrounded on two sides by a hill. Flat pitch too. I've been there loads of times. I've pitched there with the quasar guy in strong winds once before. I had a 3 season pocket hotel from JW. A reasonable tent but definitely a 3 season. I'd added loads of guys before the night but they worked lose. Plus we got flooded out. Not very nice by 5am when I woke but the storm had passed.

A few months later the quasar had the snapped pole.

IMHO it's a fair comparison because the tents were similar ages, owned by people with similar attitudes to kit and being best mates did most of their wildcamping together. They pitched very close up each other and both fit the full force of the storm as it passed over and end direction changed. It was a sideways hit that did got the quasar and iirc the nallo got the full force but wasn't damaged.

Not a good night for either of them tbh. You don't often sleep through those sorts of storms. I've had similar on top of fleetwith pike. I was tucked against the very low stone wall and had a low pitch with my flat tarp. I woke about 3 or 4 and slowly came round and got up once rain stopped. Wind was still right up. The tarp coped better than the atko but only because it was pitched in a dip next to the wall. Plus low cave pitch was very wind shedding. IMHO quality of pitch is very important. With a tarp that means more factors to consider. Location, shape of the tarp pitch and number of fixing points. More variety than a tent. I've often pitched in an open style on a good evening then repitched middle of the night to a more sheltered style.

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pjclinch
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 10 Jun 2019, 3:39pm

Tangled Metal wrote:In the nallo vs quasar comparison the two people concerned are long term outdoor types, into their gear and tending towards getting good gear and looking after it. I don't know the age of them but iirc the nallo was at most a couple of years old and the quasar no idea but since he was a South African who had only been in the UK at most 3 or 4 years that's likely its top age. Either way in good nick.<snip>


But it's still too small a sample base to tell you anything conclusive. We know for a fact that the Quasar has a distinguished service record on 8000m peaks, and it wouldn't have if it was prone to failing in high winds...

While Hille's tunnels are pretty bombproof I've never seen a suggestion that they're more bombproof than their geodesics. Rather, they're lighter for the same volume and tend to pack up a little quicker (downsides are they do static snow loading of base-camp tents less well, bit of a moot point for most cycling, and noisier in a blow).

Having said that, a pal with plenty of mountaineering credentials replaced his Quasar with a Nallo GT and has never regretted doing so for a moment.

Pete.
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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 10 Jun 2019, 4:45pm

pjclinch wrote:
Sweep wrote:I also tend to tend towards lower price tents (but not cheap and poor) as have the idea that they may well be tougher and easier to fix if I am prepared for a modest weight penalty. And I am.


It depends how you choose to spend the money. Hille Red Label and Black Label cost pretty much the same for comparable models. The difference is where they've chosen to put the compromise points, with Red Label being lighter but not so tough and Black Label with more of the emphasis on bombroofing (stronger poles, higher tear strength flysheets, thicker, more abrasion resistant groundsheets).

"Lighter" isn't the only way to spend more money!

Pete.


Well actually I was, er, pitching, well below the hille level with my relatively budget tent preferences. Each to their own.
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pjclinch
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby pjclinch » 10 Jun 2019, 7:31pm

Sweep wrote:
Well actually I was, er, pitching, well below the hille level with my relatively budget tent preferences.


I wasn't particularly suggesting you should get a Hille, I was just using their product line as an example of paying for tough over light.

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hamster
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby hamster » 12 Jun 2019, 8:32am

nirakaro wrote:I have a Terra Nova Laser, which looks very similar to the Zephyros, and I imagine would be much the same in strong wind.


You are right, the Zephyros is essentially a cheaper Laser with heavier materials. I like my Zephyros 2, but it is VERY cramped with two in it (I'm only 170cm tall, and that was sharing with a 160cm teenager). But it's a brilliant solo tent.
My other tent is a Terra Nova Voyager, equally good but more spacious and made with costlier materials and so pricier.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Tigerbiten » 12 Jun 2019, 9:43am

The zip on my Laser 2 started to fail after a couple of long tours, ~300 day use in total.
It was cheaper to buy a whole new Zephyros 2 tent rather than just a Laser 2 fly.
I needed a slight bodge to get it to work but now my tent is a hybrid, Zephyros 2 fly and Laser 2 inner and poles.

YMMV ....... :D

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Sweep
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby Sweep » 12 Jun 2019, 9:51am

Tinnishill wrote:An outdoor education instructor of my acquaintance who works in the area of the world mentioned swears by their Zephyros 2.

I see that the design has been updated recently with more thought to cyclist use;

https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/tents-and- ... ct-2-tent/


Just noticed that on that link they describe it as a two person tent but that under specs on tbe right hand side of the page they say that it sleeps 1.
Now of course I know that it is often considered good advice (and I follow it) to use a two person tent for one, but surely this is the user's decision to make? The manufacturers seem a bit confused.
It does look like a good tent though and thanks for all the posts on it from folks.
Sweep

hamster
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Re: Tent for exposed areas maybe highish winds

Postby hamster » 12 Jun 2019, 11:41am

Looks like a simple typo to me.