Cyclecraft

[mjr]

I now think one probably should distinguish between "vehicular cyclists" (fine, just a way of getting around) and "vehicularist cyclists" (bad, the sort of people who oppose all cycling-specific lanes and roads as a matter of principle).

When I read Cyclecraft I was surprised to find that I had been a vehicular cyclist for many years.
When I was told that I should use the sorry apologies for British cycle facilities I became vehicularist.
Given adequate facilities I would be happy to use them.
It is not so much a matter of principle as of refusing to be shunted off into these pitiful paths for the convenience of drivers.

If you would use adequate infrastructure, you're not vehicularist. They're the ones who write letters of objection to cycleways without even looking at the plans - just because it's a cycleway. They're the ones who get picked up by Dutch police for riding on the dual carriageway outside Schipol instead of the flat smooth cycleway alongside.

No reasonable person would say you should use the sort of junk that infests the villages south of Boston, for example. Or Nuneaton.

[Mike Sales]

If you would use adequate infrastructure, you're not vehicularist. They're the ones who write letters of objection to cycleways without even looking at the plans - just because it's a cycleway. They're the ones who get picked up by Dutch police for riding on the dual carriageway outside Schipol instead of the flat smooth cycleway alongside.

No reasonable person would say you should use the sort of junk that infests the villages south of Boston.

You are defining vehicularist as a quite extreme doctrinaire. Maybe it depends on what adequate means. I am afraid that bitter experience means that I look at cycle path plans with very little hope, and ready to spot the inevitable idiocies. Anyone wanting to write a letter of objection is best advised to look closely at the plans, if they want their effort to be worthwhile.
I can think of one path on a road into Spalding which has cyclists dismount signs at every junction! I always ignore the lines defining a cycle route and make my own appreciation.

[mjr]

Indeed, that's junk. Whereas some would object to the likes of Two Plank Lane (if I've remembered the name correctly), although I wish the councils would cut the veg and fill the holes more!

[thirdcrank]

I've decided that I am going to exercise my right to self determine and I now formally adopt the description of myself as a bicycle driver.

Re cyclists using decent infrastructure, several times over the years I've posted that if there were to be any decent infrastructure, not only would cyclists use it through willingness rather than compulsion, it would be hard to keep riders off it. There's very little opportunity to verify this by observation.

In other news, in proud granddad mode, I'll mention (as in brag) that my grandsons aged 13 and 11 today completed the 70 miles of the Great Yorkshire Bike Ride, not only driving their Islabikes, but dressed in the kit of the pro cycling team AG2R, which their dad sees as the cycling equivalent of personalised reg plates. I hate to think how many potential cyclists they have discouraged by this totally unnecessary dressing up in sports togs. For the elder of them, this is his third completion of the event, dressed like a Romain Bardet tribute act. Whatever is the younger generation coming to? Have they never heard of Reg Harris?

[pjclinch]

So they really chose to go with brown shorts all by themselves?

[thirdcrank]

So they really chose to go with brown shorts all by themselves?

That's another one straight over my head. The shorts are brown as you say, but I''ve missed the "all by themselves bit." In other circumstances I might have played along by standing at the roadside in soigneur mode with an AG2R jacket.

[pjclinch]

So they really chose to go with brown shorts all by themselves?

That's another one straight over my head. The shorts are brown as you say, but I''ve missed the "all by themselves bit." In other circumstances I might have played along by standing at the roadside in soigneur mode with an AG2R jacket.

I was meaning "what is the world coming to when a teenager thinks AG2R kit is a good look?"

But actually who am I kidding? Myself I think, I'm the wrong side of 50 and know nothing of fashion (if I was choosing pro peloton replica kit to ride in it would be Canyon SRAM)

Pete.

[thirdcrank]

I was meaning "what is the world coming to when a teenager thinks AG2R kit is a good look?"

But actually who am I kidding? Myself I think, I'm the wrong side of 50 and know nothing of fashion (if I was choosing pro peloton replica kit to ride in it would be Canyon SRAM)

Pete.

Our surname is AGAR so AG2R was selected by our son - not a committed cyclist - although he has now done the GYBR three times. Our eldest grandson was 10 when he first did it, so teenage fashions didn't come into it. During his second ride, an adult rider complimented him on riding like Romain Bardet and he had to ask me to explain later. All three are keen Leeds United Supporters. The younger one always goes against the flow and his favourite replica kit is a smart one from some Dutch side who may be better known over there.

The older generation favours long-gone kits to display a certain length of experience. There was one chap there yesterday resplendent in a TI Raleigh jersey. My purple Mercier BP Hutchinson - think Raymond Poulidor - would have trumped that had it not been for the moths getting at it many years ago and thsee things shrinking with the passage of time. It fit me like a glove when I was 19. For some reason, the area below the chest pockets shrank the most. To avoid misunderstanding, the angina means I'm no longer up to a ride like that: I'm just a proud granddad/ mechanic/ soigneur. My head has swollen so much that my Peugeot BP massed start cap - think Tom Simpson - doesn't fit either.

[Vorpal]

I've decided that I am going to exercise my right to self determine and I now formally adopt the description of myself as a bicycle driver.

Don't blame me!

Re cyclists using decent infrastructure, several times over the years I've posted that if there were to be any decent infrastructure, not only would cyclists use it through willingness rather than compulsion, it would be hard to keep riders off it. There's very little opportunity to verify this by observation.

I agree! But I can still understand the argument that segregation will lead to cyclists losing their rights to use the road, like in the Netherlands.

In other news, in proud granddad mode, I'll mention (as in brag) that my grandsons aged 13 and 11 today completed the 70 miles of the Great Yorkshire Bike Ride, not only driving their Islabikes, but dressed in the kit of the pro cycling team AG2R, which their dad sees as the cycling equivalent of personalised reg plates. I hate to think how many potential cyclists they have discouraged by this totally unnecessary dressing up in sports togs. For the elder of them, this is his third completion of the event, dressed like a Romain Bardet tribute act. Whatever is the younger generation coming to? Have they never heard of Reg Harris?

TBH, I think it's kind of pointless for non-professionals wearing pro kit, but I understand the desire to do so, and in their case, it seems apropos.

p.s. I have & wear club kit, and I don't guess that casual observers who don't follow cycle racing understand the distinction.

[wjhall]

Yes, JF was at the trail where he was convicted. At the appeal the case was chucked out before the defence witnesses got to say anything.....some might suggest that this was on account of having a judge who understood law, as opposed to a magistrate who was an enthusiastic petrol head.

Thank you, a useful clarification.

[thirdcrank]

... Don't blame me!

Wood eye?

I agree! But I can still understand the argument that segregation will lead to cyclists losing their rights to use the road, like in the Netherlands.

Good. Another point I often make is that getting cyclists out of the road is the easy bit. Producing decent alternative provision is beyond the wit / budget of those given the job, often the most junior highwaymen as a career step to providing for motor traffic.

TBH, I think it's kind of pointless for non-professionals wearing pro kit, but I understand the desire to do so, and in their case, it seems apropos.

a waste of money but not quite as much as the latest Man U third away change kit. OTOH, while soccer kits pass as leisurewear, cycle racing shorts are not much use for anything but riding a bike. If it wasn't obvious I was making the point that riders who dress in replica kits are blamed for deterring less sporty riders. If somebody wants to take up cycling, they won't be deterred by the sartorial choices of young boys like these.

[Bmblbzzz]

I was meaning "what is the world coming to when a teenager thinks AG2R kit is a good look?"

But actually who am I kidding? Myself I think, I'm the wrong side of 50 and know nothing of fashion (if I was choosing pro peloton replica kit to ride in it would be Canyon SRAM)

Pete.

Our surname is AGAR so AG2R was selected by our son - not a committed cyclist - although he has now done the GYBR three times.

Do they (and you) like jelly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar

[thirdcrank]

The old jokes are always the best

[st599_uk]

OTOH, while soccer kits pass as leisurewear, cycle racing shorts are not much use for anything but riding a bike. If it wasn't obvious I was making the point that riders who dress in replica kits are blamed for deterring less sporty riders. If somebody wants to take up cycling, they won't be deterred by the sartorial choices of young boys like these.

I had a boss who used to wear his cycling shorts to meetings and sit on the desk.

He gave up after one of the female engineers asked him if it was cold outside

[pjclinch]

The old jokes are always the best

I think you mean "oldest"