Good cheap helmet

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby skyhawk » 23 Jun 2019, 11:32am

Mike Sales wrote:
skyhawk wrote:Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one, there are other sides to this not just for and against but also WHY including emotional and psychological. NOTHING is black and white.

Apologies for sounding off


You seem to believe that buying and wearing a helmet gives you something called safety. I am afraid to tell you that safety on the road, and elsewhere, is not a state to be gained.
Helmeted cyclists die in accidents too, so if you are led into riding a bike by wearing one and feeling safe, you are being led into danger.
When Australia mandated helmets and the wearing rate went from about a third to nearly 100%, the head injury rate
went up a trifle! The greatest effect was on the number of cyclists. This went down markedly.



You really have no idea do you my comment has clearly gone right over your head I suggest before commenting you not only read but understand what you are reading before yo0u respond

Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"

I quite clearly stated and will again

"Many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one""

Please read and note the whole picture in a comment
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Mike Sales
Posts: 4410
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Mike Sales » 23 Jun 2019, 11:51am

skyhawk wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
skyhawk wrote:Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one, there are other sides to this not just for and against but also WHY including emotional and psychological. NOTHING is black and white.

Apologies for sounding off


You seem to believe that buying and wearing a helmet gives you something called safety. I am afraid to tell you that safety on the road, and elsewhere, is not a state to be gained.
Helmeted cyclists die in accidents too, so if you are led into riding a bike by wearing one and feeling safe, you are being led into danger.
When Australia mandated helmets and the wearing rate went from about a third to nearly 100%, the head injury rate
went up a trifle! The greatest effect was on the number of cyclists. This went down markedly.



You really have no idea do you my comment has clearly gone right over your head I suggest before commenting you not only read but understand what you are reading before yo0u respond

Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"

I quite clearly
stated and will again

"Many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one""

Please read and note the whole picture in a comment


You have misunderstood me I am afraid.
You are convinced helmets make a difference to cycle safety.
I am telling you that the evidence shows that they do not.
You would not use a bike without one.
Riding in a helmet is no safer than without.
Sitting on your sofa is safer than going out on the road.
If you cycle in a helmet in the belief it makes you safe you are being led into danger, because you are in fact not made safe by the helmet.
I recommend that you read more widely in this subforum to get a handle on the arguments.
Also useful is

https://www.badscience.net/2013/12/bicycle-helmets-and-the-law-a-perfect-teaching-case-for-epidemiology/

“The enduring popularity of helmets as a proposed major intervention for increased road safety may therefore lie not with their direct benefits – which seem too modest to capture compared with other strategies – but more with the cultural, psychological, and political aspects of popular debate around risk,” they say.


If they work I would think that it would be possible to tell.
"The benefits are too modest to capture..."

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby skyhawk » 23 Jun 2019, 12:24pm

Mike Sales wrote:
skyhawk wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
You seem to believe that buying and wearing a helmet gives you something called safety. I am afraid to tell you that safety on the road, and elsewhere, is not a state to be gained.
Helmeted cyclists die in accidents too, so if you are led into riding a bike by wearing one and feeling safe, you are being led into danger.
When Australia mandated helmets and the wearing rate went from about a third to nearly 100%, the head injury rate
went up a trifle! The greatest effect was on the number of cyclists. This went down markedly.



You really have no idea do you my comment has clearly gone right over your head I suggest before commenting you not only read but understand what you are reading before yo0u respond

Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"

I quite clearly
stated and will again

"Many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one""

Please read and note the whole picture in a comment


You have misunderstood me I am afraid.
You are convinced helmets make a difference to cycle safety.
I am telling you that the evidence shows that they do not.
You would not use a bike without one.
Riding in a helmet is no safer than without.
Sitting on your sofa is safer than going out on the road.
If you cycle in a helmet in the belief it makes you safe you are being led into danger, because you are in fact not made safe by the helmet.
I recommend that you read more widely in this subforum to get a handle on the arguments.
Also useful is

https://www.badscience.net/2013/12/bicycle-helmets-and-the-law-a-perfect-teaching-case-for-epidemiology/

“The enduring popularity of helmets as a proposed major intervention for increased road safety may therefore lie not with their direct benefits – which seem too modest to capture compared with other strategies – but more with the cultural, psychological, and political aspects of popular debate around risk,” they say.


If they work I would think that it would be possible to tell.
"The benefits are too modest to capture..."


You still don't get it, si I can't be bothered to comment again
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Mike Sales
Posts: 4410
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Mike Sales » 23 Jun 2019, 12:55pm

Skyhawk, please explain. I like to understand.

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horizon
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby horizon » 23 Jun 2019, 2:39pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:I have posted this before but for anybody that is genuinely interested in safety, rather than mindless helmet promotion, this blog post is well worth a read.
Wanlock Dod wrote:This Finnish blog post is well worth a read.


From that blog:

But in reality speed is a much more significant risk factor. Dropping your cycling speed from 30 km/h to 20 km/h increases your safety much more than wearing a bicycle helmet, already because speed affects your risk of crashing in the first place, whereas a helmet doesn’t prevent any crashes, it only softens the impact, and it only covers part of your head.


From a Chain Reaction cycling leaflet:

Ride hard. Wear a helmet.


Hmmm. :roll:
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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gaz
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Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby gaz » 23 Jun 2019, 2:49pm

See also: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=130320&p=1359270&#p1359264

(Although that is simply adding to the thread drift).
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

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horizon
Posts: 10075
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby horizon » 23 Jun 2019, 2:55pm

skyhawk wrote:Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"



skyhawk: rest assured that this forum is a tiny little skirmish in the Great Helmet War in which a small band of the last remaining anti-helmet brigrade are holding out in a small redoubt against the huge armies of the Helmet Forces. Armed only with facts and statistics, they suffer the daily bombardment of advertising, helmet production and promotion, dubious but sensational press stories, absurd requirements by the BBC that all cycling reports must show helmeted riders, road safety videos and the rants of headteachers, misinformed neighbours and politicians. The curious thing is that they are still alive, much to the consternation and frustration of the Helmet leaders whose generals have told them that the anti-helmet brigade would be wiped out easily by now. Worse still, the Helmet and anti-helmet forces are dying in equal numbers in the pitched battles on the road, despite the apparent superiority of Helmet armament. More reports from the Front to follow!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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fossala
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Joined: 21 May 2013, 8:29am

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby fossala » 23 Jun 2019, 3:00pm

skyhawk wrote:Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"

Stop talking for all people with autism. You use it again and again to push what every your agenda and the presuming it then makes your point unquestionable.

I ride without a helmet and also autistic. Actually I manage around 8-10,000 miles a year and have yet to have a serious head injury.

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Wanlock Dod
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Joined: 28 Sep 2016, 5:48pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Wanlock Dod » 28 Jun 2019, 1:06pm

skyhawk wrote:...many like me feel safer with them...

I certainly wouldn't question that, actually I feel so much less safe since I stopped wearing a helmet that I very rarely go much more than 50 kph downhill, whereas I often used to try to get as close to 80 kph as I possibly could with a helmet on. I wonder which is actually safer?

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Jun 2019, 1:31pm

skyhawk wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
skyhawk wrote:

You really have no idea do you my comment has clearly gone right over your head I suggest before commenting you not only read but understand what you are reading before yo0u respond

Finally remember there are people like me, and my son, autistic, who can come off, and other disabled when you make your anti helmet war, many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one"

I quite clearly stated and will again

"Many like me feel safer with them and that alone is worth a lot as people like me would not even use a bike without one""

Please read and note the whole picture in a comment


You have misunderstood me I am afraid.
You are convinced helmets make a difference to cycle safety.
I am telling you that the evidence shows that they do not.
You would not use a bike without one.
Riding in a helmet is no safer than without.
Sitting on your sofa is safer than going out on the road.
If you cycle in a helmet in the belief it makes you safe you are being led into danger, because you are in fact not made safe by the helmet.
I recommend that you read more widely in this subforum to get a handle on the arguments.
Also useful is

https://www.badscience.net/2013/12/bicycle-helmets-and-the-law-a-perfect-teaching-case-for-epidemiology/

“The enduring popularity of helmets as a proposed major intervention for increased road safety may, therefore, lie not with their direct benefits – which seem too modest to capture compared with other strategies – but more with the cultural, psychological, and political aspects of popular debate around risk,” they say.


If they work I would think that it would be possible to tell.
"The benefits are too modest to capture..."


You still don't get it, si I can't be bothered to comment again




The way that I read the language is that Skyhawk had an epiphany when his helmet "saved him" and that is his dug-in position. Hence the "anti-helmet" allegations.

It is difficult from such an extreme position to see the middle ground of informed and evidenced information. This will be dismissed as it does not fit the very closed agenda

Then we have the matter of disability. If an individual feels that their disability increases their risk of a fall, and or they feel safer then, by all means, they should wear one. IT must though be recognised that this is an outlier and a totally different position from that of the average cyclist

However, that then transcends just cycling and brings us into the realms of special needs helmets, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence for a special needs helmet and many would feel safer wearing one....would it be required for walking, transferring etc?

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Audax67
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Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Audax67 » 28 Jun 2019, 2:14pm

God's Holy Braces, why must every helmet-related post trigger page after page of helmet-related squabbles?

The bloke (or blokess) wants to buy a good cheap helmet. For God's sake tell him if you know one, otherwise go and grind your collective axes somewhere else. He's asking for help, not a repeat performance of the wearying old polemics that just won't go away.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Jun 2019, 3:01pm

Audax67 wrote:God's Holy Braces, why must every helmet-related post trigger page after page of helmet-related squabbles?

The bloke (or blokess) wants to buy a good cheap helmet. For God's sake tell him if you know one, otherwise go and grind your collective axes somewhere else. He's asking for help, not a repeat performance of the wearying old polemics that just won't go away.


And that was the advice given

He then asked about safety..... unless you want to add (psycophants only need reply) then you will get honest, informed replies

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Audax67
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Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Audax67 » 28 Jun 2019, 4:24pm

Oh well. Trouble is, I've rarely seen a helmet thread that didn't degenerate so when I saw the comment "You still don't get it, si I can't be bothered to comment again" I sorta assumed... No apologies offered.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Wanlock Dod » 29 Jun 2019, 9:50am

Image

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Cunobelin
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Re: Good cheap helmet

Postby Cunobelin » 29 Jun 2019, 3:53pm

Image