Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Tangled Metal
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Jul 2019, 2:27pm

Aren't festival goers all about hedonism? Isn't hedonism about the self gratification in the here and now? Why do you think they give a shoot about saving the planet? Naive or what?!!

Mike Sales
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Mike Sales » 1 Jul 2019, 2:29pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Aren't festival goers all about hedonism? Isn't hedonism about the self gratification in the here and now? Why do you think they give a shoot about saving the planet? Naive or what?!!


It's perfectly possible to like enjoying yourself but to want to do it in an environmentally responsible way.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Jul 2019, 2:36pm

Do they look like they give a toss about single use plastics? I read an article about this single order plastics issue and Glastonbury. The photo used was a female festival goer carrying two plastic point glasses of water with more people carrying them on the background.

It certainly is possible but that's too hard for most of them so they don't do anything. That's the reality.

Anyone seen the photos of the cleanup operation? Plastic refuse sacks and a whole army picking up cans and plastic bottles all over the place. I think I read that they've already collected 12000+ drinks cans for recycling. The cleanup operation is expected to take at least 6 weeks! At least that before they can let the cows out into those fields. 6 weeks! Seriously? How green is that?

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby al_yrpal » 1 Jul 2019, 2:47pm

All that amply demonstrates how far we need to go to be really green. Mind boggling ! :mrgreen:

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Jul 2019, 3:00pm

It's a pity you can't make it vr festival instead. People stay at home, bands perform in their home town and you don't have the pollution to get people there and waste. Telefestivals!

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Mike Sales » 1 Jul 2019, 3:02pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Do they look like they give a toss about single use plastics? I read an article about this single order plastics issue and Glastonbury. The photo used was a female festival goer carrying two plastic point glasses of water with more people carrying them on the background.

It certainly is possible but that's too hard for most of them so they don't do anything. That's the reality.

Anyone seen the photos of the cleanup operation? Plastic refuse sacks and a whole army picking up cans and plastic bottles all over the place. I think I read that they've already collected 12000+ drinks cans for recycling. The cleanup operation is expected to take at least 6 weeks! At least that before they can let the cows out into those fields. 6 weeks! Seriously? How green is that?


I imagine that some Glastonbury goers care enough to actually make an effort to be green, and others don't, just like the rest of us.
I was taking issue with your specious logic which aimed to prove that going to the festival, or perhaps hedonism generally, is not compatible with taking care of the planet.
That many festival goers have not (yet?) absorbed the message does not show that Glastonbury cannot be "green".
My own hedonism would be repelled by any festival, but I do know how to enjoy myself, and try to leave no mark on the planet. My early camping was with the Scouts, and I was taught to leave a site as I found it.
I share you disgust at the conduct of too many Glastonbury customers. I hope they can learn. At least they pay for the clean up, I suppose, as the festival makes a profit.
I would not enjoy a VR festival either, I would guess that it is not the same as being there. Shame.

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Jul 2019, 3:23pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Do they look like they give a toss about single use plastics? I read an article about this single order plastics issue and Glastonbury. The photo used was a female festival goer carrying two plastic point glasses of water with more people carrying them on the background.

It certainly is possible but that's too hard for most of them so they don't do anything. That's the reality.

Anyone seen the photos of the cleanup operation? Plastic refuse sacks and a whole army picking up cans and plastic bottles all over the place. I think I read that they've already collected 12000+ drinks cans for recycling. The cleanup operation is expected to take at least 6 weeks! At least that before they can let the cows out into those fields. 6 weeks! Seriously? How green is that?


I imagine that some Glastonbury goers care enough to actually make an effort to be green, and others don't, just like the rest of us.
I was taking issue with your specious logic which aimed to prove that going to the festival, or perhaps hedonism generally, is not compatible with taking care of the planet.
That many festival goers have not (yet?) absorbed the message does not show that Glastonbury cannot be "green".
My own hedonism would be repelled by any festival, but I do know how to enjoy myself, and try to leave no mark on the planet. My early camping was with the Scouts, and I was taught to leave a site as I found it.
I share you disgust at the conduct of too many Glastonbury customers. I hope they can learn. At least they pay for the clean up, I suppose, as the festival makes a profit.
I would not enjoy a VR festival either, I would guess that it is not the same as being there. Shame.


the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence.


Or for the more philosophical...

the ethical theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.


Google derived definition of hedonism. Whilst I doubt many of the people at Glastonbury will be into philosophy the pursuit of pleasure bit sound right. What better indication of self indulgence is there than a field full of discarded cans and bottles at the end of a music festival? Hardly a specious logic based on evidence.

If climate was in the minds of anyone there it appears to be a small minority who actually practise what is often preached about environmental matters. How can the organisers dedicate the festival to the campaign against single use plastics with that evidence? How can Sir A congratulate the crowd over cutting out single use plastics? Are they really that blinkered?

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2019, 3:46pm

Tangled Metal wrote: If climate was in the minds of anyone there it appears to be a small minority who actually practise what is often preached about environmental matters. How can the organisers dedicate the festival to the campaign against single use plastics with that evidence? How can Sir A congratulate the crowd over cutting out single use plastics? Are they really that blinkered?

It's all about changing peoples attitudes and perception.

Is this Glastonbury green? Apparently not.
What about the next one? The one after that.

It's a slow process that only works if you keep banging on about it. Who knows how many people there listened to D.A and felt a sense of shame, how many will think later about what they could have done?

I seriously never understand the hypocrisy argument.
We'd never get anything changed.

In short: Yes it's crap, but keep banging on and it will get better.

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Tangled Metal » 1 Jul 2019, 4:42pm

Preaching isn't getting us there quick enough. If that's the only way then it may be too late.

What about banning plastic water bottles on the site or plastic glasses? I wonder where those people got those plastic glasses from? Did they bring them with them or get them on site from a stand or the water fountains?

Then what can they do about tents? Preach or ban? A work colleague who goes to other festivals said he and his mates never really used their tents but just kept going all weekend! Perhaps huge cotton marquees where people ban get their head down safely for a few hours of needed and no more disposable plastic tents.

Certainly being congratulated by Sir D. A. for doing something they most certainly didn't do isn't really getting anywhere IMHO.

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2019, 4:53pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Preaching isn't getting us there quick enough. If that's the only way then it may be too late.

Glastonbury doesn't even register on the list of what needs doing.

The most important thing you can do with those young people is educate them and DA making a speech there probably does exactly that.
The real issue we've got is the harder you push people the harder they push back and hence why imo targeting individuals at the levels required is likely to be counterproductive.

Plastics are a symptom of the real issues and they can only be resolved via government action and creating consumers who apply pressure to governments is the way this can be achieved.

I've mentioned this before, anything that's manufactured should include the cost of it's disposal added at point of sale. That money is either paid back to the manufacturers to dispose/reuse their products or is used to pay 3rd parties to do the same.
Anything that can only be land filled has a premium disposal price.

Do that and watch how fast manufacturers change their materials and manufacturing methods.

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby horizon » 1 Jul 2019, 4:56pm

if you want to be nosey, here's the BBC webcam:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/festivals/g ... ury/webcam

If the images are up-to-date (and it's only Monday), maybe we are already seeing an improvement. :)
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby brynpoeth » 1 Jul 2019, 6:50pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It's a pity you can't make it vr festival instead. People stay at home, bands perform in their home town and you don't have the pollution to get people there and waste. Telefestivals!

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Surely if one can carry the full bottles in one can carry empty ones out, right?
..
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Jul 2019, 6:10am

horizon wrote:..
Glastonbury's plastics and tents problem sickens me as do the people who attend and create it. Sorry, but they really do disgust me.

Tend to agree, the festival organisers get rich, famous, influential if they are 'lucky'
I was young once but never wanted to attend such a monstrous event
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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 8:55am

brynpoeth wrote:
horizon wrote:..
Glastonbury's plastics and tents problem sickens me as do the people who attend and create it. Sorry, but they really do disgust me.

Tend to agree, the festival organisers get rich, famous, influential if they are 'lucky'
I was young once but never wanted to attend such a monstrous event

The problem with folk is that they think everyone else's misdemeanours are the issue and not their own.
Bit like drivers really - but ecologically biased.

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Re: Glastonbury - no single-use plastics? You must be joking!

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Jul 2019, 9:13am

kwackers wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
horizon wrote:..
Glastonbury's plastics and tents problem sickens me as do the people who attend and create it. Sorry, but they really do disgust me.

Tend to agree, the festival organisers get rich, famous, influential if they are 'lucky'
I was young once but never wanted to attend such a monstrous event

The problem with folk is that they think everyone else's misdemeanours are the issue and not their own.
Bit like drivers really - but ecologically biased.

Other music genres are to blame too. I'm sick of folk being pilloried in that way.