Tory leader - place your bets

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bovlomov
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby bovlomov » 10 Jul 2019, 5:45pm

windmiller wrote:What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality.

You do understand, don't you, that diplomats are supposed to tell their bosses the truth as they see it? In this case, it wasn't anything controversial. It's what we all knew already.

And what makes you think he was lax with security? Do you know anything of how it was leaked?

windmiller
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby windmiller » 10 Jul 2019, 5:54pm

bovlomov wrote:
windmiller wrote:What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality.

You do understand, don't you, that diplomats are supposed to tell their bosses the truth as they see it? In this case, it wasn't anything controversial. It's what we all knew already.

And what makes you think he was lax with security? Do you know anything of how it was leaked?


Er the word "leaked" is a kind of a clue that security has a problem.

Darroch is obviously afraid of Trump and insincere, Good policy to replace him with someone with a backbone next time, who won't run away from loud nasty words.

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kylecycler
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby kylecycler » 10 Jul 2019, 6:01pm

windmiller wrote:What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality. What he really thought about Trump and Co. was an unintentional back stab. Trump replied as only he can with zero upfront diplomacy.
After several hours of heroic stoic silence Darroch threw in the towel and then basks in the giant wave of sympathy that anyone who opposes Trump and loses can expect.

Not sympathy, integrity, something that you evidently wouldn't understand. And you need to learn how to spell Ambassador.

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bovlomov
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby bovlomov » 10 Jul 2019, 6:01pm

windmiller wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
windmiller wrote:What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality.

You do understand, don't you, that diplomats are supposed to tell their bosses the truth as they see it? In this case, it wasn't anything controversial. It's what we all knew already.

And what makes you think he was lax with security? Do you know anything of how it was leaked?


Er the word "leaked" is a kind of a clue that security has a problem.

Darroch is obviously afraid of Trump and insincere, Good policy to replace him with someone with a backbone next time, who won't run away from loud nasty words.

Are you suggesting that the ambassador shouldn't allow any of his staff to read his letters? As you don't know who was responsible for the leak, you are wrong to say the the ambassador was lax.

You think it's obvious - but what makes you think Darroch was afraid of Trump? Do you have some inside knowledge?

kwackers
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby kwackers » 10 Jul 2019, 6:02pm

windmiller wrote:Er the word "leaked" is a kind of a clue that security has a problem.

Darroch is obviously afraid of Trump and insincere, Good policy to replace him with someone with a backbone next time, who won't run away from loud nasty words.

Who says he was responsible for the leak? Emails have recipients, our gov hasn't shown itself to be too clever when it comes to leaks.
It's not like it's the first.

Ultimately though he either had to go or we don't deal with the yanks - not because of us but because Trump would simply refuse.

Offering his resignation is about as close to saving face as we could get. If we had backbone we'd stand up to Trump but we haven't and if brexit happens we'll need those trade deals.
Basically nothing to do with being afraid and more to do with either us throwing him under the horse or him throwing himself for the greater good (most likely after a word in his ear).

windmiller
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby windmiller » 10 Jul 2019, 6:04pm

kylecycler wrote:
windmiller wrote:What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality. What he really thought about Trump and Co. was an unintentional back stab. Trump replied as only he can with zero upfront diplomacy.
After several hours of heroic stoic silence Darroch threw in the towel and then basks in the giant wave of sympathy that anyone who opposes Trump and loses can expect.

Not sympathy, integrity, something that you evidently wouldn't understand. And you need to learn how to spell Ambassador.


Apologies for not being a pedantic spell checker that you evidently are, well done!
Last edited by windmiller on 10 Jul 2019, 10:38pm, edited 2 times in total.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby PDQ Mobile » 10 Jul 2019, 6:09pm

windmiller wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:So Johnson has waded into to British American Ambassador row.

Stating:-
"I have got a good relationship with the White House and I have no embarrassment in saying that."
"I think it's very important that we have a strong relationship with our most important ally.
"The United States is, has been, will be and for the foreseeable future our number one political military friend."
(Source BBC)
-------
I for one disgaree with this sentiment.
I feel ever more ill at ease with aspects of American culture and feel more at home with Europeans by and large.
Trump's brash and ill tempered comments merely reinforce my view.

I note Mr Johnson's inclusion of the word "military" in his list of likes.

I think I am becoming a peacenik!!


What happened in a nutshell is that our Ambassodor has been proven to be somewhat lax with security and confidentiality. What he really thought about Trump and Co. was an unintentional back stab. Trump replied as only he can with zero upfront diplomacy.
After several hours of heroic stoic silence Darroch threw in the towel and then basks in the giant wave of sympathy that anyone who opposes Trump and loses can expect.

Things get leaked.
I guess.

If a member of the Civil service wants to leak then they often can.

Trump does not understand diplomacy, that much is clear.
And yet diplomacy has much to commend it on the International stage.
It is an art, and it is for clever and cultured people. And those with some understanding of other cultures hopefully.
It has prevented in the past much loss of human life by helping understanding and in that sense has much to commend it.

It is a strange thing, an Embassy, an island of a particular country within another and not subject to its laws, by and large.
That immunity is a very important principle of international diplomacy.

If our Ambassador while informing the Govt. back home of his opinion that Trump administration is actuallly as dysfunctional and culturally deficient as it appears to many of us, then that is also the Ambassador's remit.

That Johnson toadies up to the dysfunctional Trump administration is for myself a sad sad day. I had hoped for better.

More supportive of the UK that he is so fond of telling us all needs it's independence from outside interference!
I see Foxy's toadying too. Must be dirty money involved. IMHO
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 10 Jul 2019, 6:10pm, edited 1 time in total.

windmiller
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby windmiller » 10 Jul 2019, 6:10pm

kwackers wrote:
windmiller wrote:Er the word "leaked" is a kind of a clue that security has a problem.

Darroch is obviously afraid of Trump and insincere, Good policy to replace him with someone with a backbone next time, who won't run away from loud nasty words.

Who says he was responsible for the leak? Emails have recipients, our gov hasn't shown itself to be too clever when it comes to leaks.
It's not like it's the first.

Ultimately though he either had to go or we don't deal with the yanks - not because of us but because Trump would simply refuse.

Offering his resignation is about as close to saving face as we could get. If we had backbone we'd stand up to Trump but we haven't and if brexit happens we'll need those trade deals.
Basically nothing to do with being afraid and more to do with either us throwing him under the horse or him throwing himself for the greater good (most likely after a word in his ear).


I agree with most of what you say apart from him not being responsible for the leak.

Hey good job it wasn't Obama he upset

brynpoeth
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Jul 2019, 6:57pm

Reminds one of the cold war when the US and USSR used to require dozens of diplomats to leave at short notice, tit for tat :?
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Debs
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Debs » 23 Jul 2019, 2:27pm

Moderator Note: video is not safe for work & may not be suitable for younger audiences.

https://youtu.be/FwiORpBj8P8

mercalia
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby mercalia » 23 Jul 2019, 2:45pm

Debs wrote:https://youtu.be/FwiORpBj8P8


I nearly had a fit. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

A good post to end this dismal thread

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661-Pete
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 23 Jul 2019, 5:25pm

Moderator Note: video is not safe for work & may not be suitable for younger audiences.
Quite true - but then Bojo is not suitable for younger audiences either - nor indeed older audiences ... :wink:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Cugel
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Cugel » 23 Jul 2019, 6:50pm

661-Pete wrote:
Moderator Note: video is not safe for work & may not be suitable for younger audiences.
Quite true - but then Bojo is not suitable for younger audiences either - nor indeed older audiences ... :wink:


Boris is a clown, part of the bread & circuses we now have in place of politics (albeit the bread has all been stolen by some greedymen). As such, he seems entirely fitting in his new role as Inept Ringmaster.

WIll he become a fiddling Nero, though but? It all seems terribly awfully likely!

Cugel, hiding in the hills.

brynpoeth
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby brynpoeth » 23 Jul 2019, 7:18pm

Major came from a circus family, it was too exciting so got a job in a bank
On the day he handed over to Bliar, Major went to watch cricket :wink:

What might BoJo do when he is supplanted?
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661-Pete
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 23 Jul 2019, 7:41pm

brynpoeth wrote:What might BoJo do when he is supplanted?
Abseil down the North Face of the Eiger? And get stuck half way?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).