** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 13 Jul 2019, 10:29am

reohn2 wrote:As we've found on this thread there's no post Brexit view,the UK has no future "lined up",less so after a crash out October 31 Brexit.
Brexit supporters on this thread who've put forward their proposals for the UK's future post Brexit,time and again haven't stood up to scrutiny.
Personally I find it hard to believe anyone can support Brexit knowing what we know now.

Well we're always hearing how they knew what they signed up for so surely it's about time one of them actually spelled it out?
After all if they know they could make a list for the rest of us - lets just hope it's more accurate than what they suggested at the time.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jul 2019, 10:37am

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:As we've found on this thread there's no post Brexit view,the UK has no future "lined up",less so after a crash out October 31 Brexit.
Brexit supporters on this thread who've put forward their proposals for the UK's future post Brexit,time and again haven't stood up to scrutiny.
Personally I find it hard to believe anyone can support Brexit knowing what we know now.

Well we're always hearing how they knew what they signed up for so surely it's about time one of them actually spelled it out?
After all if they know they could make a list for the rest of us - lets just hope it's more accurate than what they suggested at the time.

Yes you'd think it was as simple as David Davies once said it would be,however now reality has dawned.... :roll:
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 13 Jul 2019, 10:43am

pwa wrote:So you would ban Farage from TV? Think of the regimes where that sort of cleansing happens. Think where that goes.


Yep. The sort of regime Farage would doubtless establish were he to become PM.

andrec
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby andrec » 13 Jul 2019, 10:43am

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:As we've found on this thread there's no post Brexit view,the UK has no future "lined up",less so after a crash out October 31 Brexit.
Brexit supporters on this thread who've put forward their proposals for the UK's future post Brexit,time and again haven't stood up to scrutiny.
Personally I find it hard to believe anyone can support Brexit knowing what we know now.

Well we're always hearing how they knew what they signed up for so surely it's about time one of them actually spelled it out?
After all if they know they could make a list for the rest of us - lets just hope it's more accurate than what they suggested at the time.


Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves. We've won. Explaining was for the people's vote campaign in 2016. However, I must point out that I have already explained myself. Maybe you've overlooked my posts. I'll recap. I don't want a foreign parliament to have any say in the laws we have to obey in the UK, and I have every confidence in the people of the UK to make their own laws, including those on the environment, safety, food standards, human rights etc. After Brexit I suggest that people who want to obey laws made by foreigners should consider moving abroad where their wish will be fulfilled.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 13 Jul 2019, 10:51am

andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves.

In a democracy, voters can do any idiotic thing without having to explain themselves. Politicians do have to, however.

But anyway, quite a few of these thousand+ pages of posts are attempts by Leave voters to explain themselves. Sadly, most of the time they'd have been better not bothering - the vast majority of those efforts lacking logic or citations.

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 13 Jul 2019, 10:57am

andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves. We've won. Explaining was for the people's vote campaign in 2016. However, I must point out that I have already explained myself. Maybe you've overlooked my posts. I'll recap. I don't want a foreign parliament to have any say in the laws we have to obey in the UK, and I have every confidence in the people of the UK to make their own laws, including those on the environment, safety, food standards, human rights etc. After Brexit I suggest that people who want to obey laws made by foreigners should consider moving abroad where their wish will be fulfilled.

Ignoring your "we won, suck it up" tone I'm guessing that you're fully aware that any attempt to trade with pretty much anyone these days involves obeying their standards on food, environment and even things like human rights and this is particularly true when you're a small country like ours dealing with the big boys.

We'll agree to this when we sign a deal with the U.S and the E.U although we might have trouble exporting stuff to the EU if we follow U.S standards the alternative would be to follow EU standards and then have trouble competing with the more cheaply created U.S stuff...
Of course we could always not sign a deal with the EU and lose 40%(?) of our exports - but it would be worth considering that in the last recession the fall was only around 5% of GDP...

Given the last part of your post - did it ever occur to you that if you didn't want to obey EU laws you could have moved abroad?
Presumably you actually weren't that bothered...

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 13 Jul 2019, 11:10am

kwackers wrote:Given the last part of your post - did it ever occur to you that if you didn't want to obey EU laws you could have moved abroad? Presumably you actually weren't that bothered?

In any discussion, about anything, you can be sure that someone will come up with the fantastic proposition:
"If you don't like (a), why don't you move to (b)?"

You are complaining about the way a utility company has repaired a hole in the road? Why don't you move to Iraq?
You have suggested a minor change to food labelling? Why don't you move to the Democratic Republic of Congo?
You'd like drivers to give you a little more space? Move to Syria then!

In other words, don't dare to try to improve your own country (with the added implication that to do so is unpatriotic).

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jul 2019, 11:16am

andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves.....


So your driving your car along a rather bumpy road with your wife sat beside you and your two small children in the rear seats all strapped in and safe,you come to a fork in the road with a sign that reads DANGER CLIFF EDGE AHEAD>>>>>>>
Alongside another that reads <<<<<<<<<<< ROAD TO THINGS AS THEY ARE BUT CAN BE CHANGED FOR THE BETTER FURTHER ALONG
You discuss it with your wife and she's in favour of the second and safest option,but you like a bit of adventure and also you're driving so you have the last say and so decide to take the dangerous route.

Tell me who's the sensible and sane person in the vehicle?
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andrec
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby andrec » 13 Jul 2019, 11:18am

kwackers wrote:
andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves. We've won. Explaining was for the people's vote campaign in 2016. However, I must point out that I have already explained myself. Maybe you've overlooked my posts. I'll recap. I don't want a foreign parliament to have any say in the laws we have to obey in the UK, and I have every confidence in the people of the UK to make their own laws, including those on the environment, safety, food standards, human rights etc. After Brexit I suggest that people who want to obey laws made by foreigners should consider moving abroad where their wish will be fulfilled.

Ignoring your "we won, suck it up" tone I'm guessing that you're fully aware that any attempt to trade with pretty much anyone these days involves obeying their standards on food, environment and even things like human rights and this is particularly true when you're a small country like ours dealing with the big boys.

We'll agree to this when we sign a deal with the U.S and the E.U although we might have trouble exporting stuff to the EU if we follow U.S standards the alternative would be to follow EU standards and then have trouble competing with the more cheaply created U.S stuff...
Of course we could always not sign a deal with the EU and lose 40%(?) of our exports - but it would be worth considering that the last recession was only around 5% of GDP...

Given the last part of your post - did it ever occur to you that if you didn't want to obey EU laws you could have moved abroad?
Presumably you actually weren't that bothered?


I wasn't inviting you to suck anything up, but feel free to do so if you want. The fact is that explaining your side's case, both for Remainers and Leavers, was for the people's vote campaign. Now is the time to implement the result of that vote. Nearly all the countries in the world make all their own laws with no input from a parliament based abroad and comprised mainly of foreigners, so when we leave the EU we will rejoin that majority of nations and leave the minority. It has always been the case that countries have had to co-exist with others and co-operate with them. That's why countries have trade agreements and treaties. They do not usually surrender any of their sovereignty to a foreign based parliament. If I had moved abroad I would still have had to obey laws made by foreigners. However, if you do, and you move to an EU country after Brexit, you can still have your laws made by the EU parliament, something which you find agreeable at the moment. While I have no desire for you to emigrate, leaving the country would avoid you having to live in the UK while the UK people make all your laws, and that is something which I get the feeling you wouldn't like.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 13 Jul 2019, 11:28am

andrec wrote: Nearly all the countries in the world make all their own laws with no input from a parliament based abroad and comprised mainly of foreigners,

Nearly every country in the world is a signatory to numerous international treaties, which impose duties and restrictions. They involve human rights, trade, standards, crime prevention, employment, immigration, defence and the environment, and are managed by various organisations. The EU is one such body.

To use your argument - if you want to live in a country that doesn't sign treaties, why don't you move to North Korea?

andrec
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby andrec » 13 Jul 2019, 11:47am

bovlomov wrote:
andrec wrote: Nearly all the countries in the world make all their own laws with no input from a parliament based abroad and comprised mainly of foreigners,

Nearly every country in the world is a signatory to numerous international treaties, which impose duties and restrictions. They involve human rights, trade, standards, crime prevention, employment, immigration, defence and the environment. The EU is one such body.

To use your argument - if you want to live in a country that doesn't sign treaties, why don't you move to North Korea?


I have no objection to the UK signing treaties. Most countries do. But most do not allow any of their laws to be made in a parliament based in a foreign country and comprised mainly of foreigners. I'll be pleased when the UK rejoins that majority of countries. As I pointed out above, if any Remainer wants to continue to have many of their laws made in such a parliament they can simply emigrate to an EU country after Brexit. Ater Brexit the UK will be like Japan, Canada, the USA, India, Brazil, Peru, Kenya, Switzerland, Norway, Argentina, Mexico, Nigeria, Russia, Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, Turkey, Israel, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand, Morocco etc etc, countries which make all their own laws in their own parliaments while having agreements and treaties with other countries.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Jul 2019, 11:58am

Andrec.
How dare you suggest that I am not a patriot.
I am and I carry the scars to prove it.
And you?

I am a British citizen and an EU citizen.
I wish to retain the right of abode In both those places.

I have that right and you may not suggest that I leave the UK because of my political view.
It smacks of something very unpleasant and unBritish.


I want the best for the UK.
I believe leaving does not provide that.

We are still waiting for a citation from you of any bad law forced upon us by Brussels.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 13 Jul 2019, 12:24pm

andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves.

Almost correct. Change to Leavers like me are incapable of explaining ourselves and you're be 100% correct. :lol:

andrec
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby andrec » 13 Jul 2019, 12:34pm

pete75 wrote:
andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves.

Almost correct. Change to Leavers like me are incapable of explaining ourselves and you're be 100% correct. :lol:


Why do you think is?

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 13 Jul 2019, 12:35pm

andrec wrote:Leavers like me don't need to explain ourselves. We've won. Explaining was for the people's vote campaign in 2016. However, I must point out that I have already explained myself. Maybe you've overlooked my posts. I'll recap. I don't want a foreign parliament to have any say in the laws we have to obey in the UK, and I have every confidence in the people of the UK to make their own laws, including those on the environment, safety, food standards, human rights etc. After Brexit I suggest that people who want to obey laws made by foreigners should consider moving abroad where their wish will be fulfilled.


This is a cycling forum so to get on to a cycling point I have every confidence in the Dutch people to make good cycling related laws and infrastructure. I have no confidence whatsoever in British people to do the same. You obviously differ - could you explain why.