** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Tangled Metal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jul 2019, 8:52am

Also makes me worried about the EU. One day it's a country. Mark my words it's a take over by the federalists already.

Would be better if we had stayed in. Look at Belgium. A European treaty once nearly got scuppered because a small (iirc the smallest) region in Belgium was able to veto the Belgian acceptance and ratification of the treaty. In a federal Europe the UK could probably veto. At the very least it could carry out its usual trick of picking off support through various means such as effectively bribes. Power from within the United States of Europe!

:D

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jul 2019, 8:54am

Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jul 2019, 9:06am

al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jul 2019, 9:11am

al_yrpal wrote:During my life I have visited 45 countries, the USA 15 times, China twice 30 years apart. Our culture...art, theatre, BBC Radio and TV, the Proms, Concerts, gigs, festivals, fetes, craft shows, country fairs, our stunning countryside, bridleways, footpaths, pubs, clubs, single interest clubs, our history, landscapes, coast, I could go on and on. Love it all and as an expat you lose the lot. Love our country...
I don't dispute that you do - but do you imagine that you'd lose any of those things if we remained in the EU? On the contrary. I don't share all the interests you've listed above, true, but there's a fair bit of overlap - especially concerning the countryside and environment.

And here's the rub. Remaining in the EU is more likely to serve to protect the things we love. Leaving the EU - well, despite the platitudes of some, a big unknown...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jul 2019, 9:12am

Vorpal wrote:Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
I can only sympathise. Must be a thankless task for you and your fellow Mods...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jul 2019, 9:15am

661-Pete wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Thread has been trimmed, yet again. Please keep it civil.
I can only sympathise. Must be a thankless task for you and your fellow Mods...

Mostly me. The others can't be bothered. They'd probably just bin it. :(
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 18 Jul 2019, 9:40am

661-Pete wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.

Actually it was me, I was somewhat annoyed by Al's claim of how great things are now public spending is under control.

I watched a friend of mine look after his wife when she came down with dementia, being elderly it wore him down until he could no longer cope with the reality of someone who neither knew who he was or had control over their own body. He was completely distraught, they'd been married over 50 years and very obviously loved each other a lot.
I watched as he put her in a home, then a year later she moved because she was now beyond even their care.
I also watched as his savings dwindled and the council put a charge on his house leaving him with almost nothing for decades of hard work.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 18 Jul 2019, 9:45am

661-Pete wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:During my life I have visited 45 countries, the USA 15 times, China twice 30 years apart. Our culture...art, theatre, BBC Radio and TV, the Proms, Concerts, gigs, festivals, fetes, craft shows, country fairs, our stunning countryside, bridleways, footpaths, pubs, clubs, single interest clubs, our history, landscapes, coast, I could go on and on. Love it all and as an expat you lose the lot. Love our country...
I don't dispute that you do - but do you imagine that you'd lose any of those things if we remained in the EU? On the contrary. I don't share all the interests you've listed above, true, but there's a fair bit of overlap - especially concerning the countryside and environment.

And here's the rub. Remaining in the EU is more likely to serve to protect the things we love. Leaving the EU - well, despite the platitudes of some, a big unknown...


Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert. That sort of thing will get stopped.

Al
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Jul 2019, 10:25am

al_yrpal wrote:Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert.
I don't know about Lyme bay (fossils?) - but I do recall the 'Scallop wars' in the Baie de la Seine last year. As I recall it, British trawlers, complete with environmentally-damaging dredging equipment, were scooping up scallops during the 'close season' when French trawlers were banned from the area. Whether the Brits violated French territorial waters is a matter of dispute. All in all, a pretty ugly state of affairs - and likely to resume if Britain leaves the EU.

Incidentally, your allusion to 'nannies' is rather demeaning. When did Britain not "look after" Britain throughout all the 45 years of EEC/EU membership? Who are the 'nannies'? The ones who banned conker fights without protective headgear? The ones who forced us to eat straight bananas? :lol:

That sort of thing will get stopped.
I don't know what will be stopped. Illegal fishing is illegal fishing and will continue to happen, whatever the jurisdiction.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jul 2019, 10:46am

PDQ Mobile wrote:I would be interested in your view, Vorpal, about the positives of leaving?
Such positives have become a rare feature on here.

I've outlined my views on the (potential) positives in previous posts (a few hundred pages ago :lol: ) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1280704&hilit=fisheries#p1280704

But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.

I made some suggestions about farm policy viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1132670&hilit=farm+policy#p1132670
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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 18 Jul 2019, 11:11am

Vorpal wrote:But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.

I know that Farage agrees with you about that, and it's why he fought tooth and nail for UK fisherman at all those EU Parliament Fisheries meetings he attended (ahem... just the one) .

And this is the point. Many of the UK's problems with the EU might have been resolved, or at least modified in our favour, if UK politicians had spent more time seriously engaging in detail rather than screaming like toddlers. I know a lot of serious work was done by UK officials, that was not noticed by the tabloids - but it can't have helped that the rest of the EU had to watch senior UK politicians scapegoating the EU for all of Westminster's shortcomings. Dale Carnegie would not have approved.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Jul 2019, 11:17am

Vorpal wrote:I've outlined my views on the (potential) positives in previous posts (a few hundred pages ago :lol: ) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1280704&hilit=fisheries#p1280704

But basically, I don't think that the EU farm and fisheries policies have been ideal for the UK.

I made some suggestions about farm policy viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1132670&hilit=farm+policy#p1132670


I agree with the general point that agriculture is the main potential area for post-Brexit improvements.

However, how big an opportunity this is in reality remains to be seen.

Firstly, we’ve had much discussion about how trade deals elsewhere might actually make this worse rather than better, for which chlorinated chicken is the poster-boy of a much wider issue of having to change our own practices to suit others lower standards or see our agriculture wiped out.

Secondly, even a cursory read of the political declaration shows that fisheries policy, whilst nominally a UK held power will, in practice, be part of a wider negotiation on market access.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 18 Jul 2019, 1:35pm

661-Pete wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Pete, I dont understand that. Its us who look after Britain not nannies in the EU? Anyway look what those Danish pair trawlers operating under a fake British/EU licence have done to the seabed in Lyme Bay, its now a marine desert.
I don't know about Lyme bay (fossils?) - but I do recall the 'Scallop wars' in the Baie de la Seine last year. As I recall it, British trawlers, complete with environmentally-damaging dredging equipment, were scooping up scallops during the 'close season' when French trawlers were banned from the area. Whether the Brits violated French territorial waters is a matter of dispute. All in all, a pretty ugly state of affairs - and likely to resume if Britain leaves the EU.

Incidentally, your allusion to 'nannies' is rather demeaning. When did Britain not "look after" Britain throughout all the 45 years of EEC/EU membership? Who are the 'nannies'? The ones who banned conker fights without protective headgear? The ones who forced us to eat straight bananas? :lol:

That sort of thing will get stopped.
I don't know what will be stopped. Illegal fishing is illegal fishing and will continue to happen, whatever the jurisdiction.


The French use the same trawls! The UK fishermen were fishing within the law. The French wanted the protected period extended. It was all settled amicably in the end. The Danes were operating within the law too, but they succeeded in ruining Lyme Bays seabed. It will take 20 years to restore it. I used to see many dolphins sailing across it once, you never see them now.
I make a point of seeking out and buying African produce, buying it is much better than putting aid in the pockets of corrupt officials and politicians.
Out of 7m Bulgarians it's reckoned that a further 2m will leave in the next few years leaving only the Roma and the old. Free EU movement is a curse for Bulgaria.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 18 Jul 2019, 1:59pm

661-Pete wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I can tell you about dementia
So can I, and I fully agree it's not a topic for flippancy or jokes. In my case it was my mother, who suffered from the condition terminally, following a stroke (not Alzheimers). A distressing time for me and all the family. I don't know who accused who of the affliction, on this forum, but I'll distance myself from any of that.


I am sure every decent person here will too. Dog Whistle sniping with dementia as it's subject is plainly despicable. It's just over a year that my wife and I lost our past lives and it's been very painful.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Paulatic » 18 Jul 2019, 2:17pm

al_yrpal wrote:[
Out of 7m Bulgarians it's reckoned that a further 2m will leave in the next few years leaving only the Roma and the old. Free EU movement is a curse for Bulgaria.

Al

Who reckoned?

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