E cars and the change to the urban landscape

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Si
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E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Si » 4 Aug 2019, 4:50pm

I was just cogitating about the ramifications of the eCar revolution the other day (apparently by some unspecified point in the future an unspecified number of us might have one), and it occurred to me that there may be some knock on effects that haven't really been discussed much*. Take, for instance, where I live....a side road off a busy B road which is full of terrace housing with not front gardens or parking. We have a lot of people from this road parking in our road because their isn't room for them in their own road. Come the big change over to eCars what will happen? Will people suddenly want to park outside their own house so that they can run a cable to their car to recharge it? Will this reduce my B road to single lane (and clear my road of interloping parkers) with the pavements strewn with cables that make it difficult to pass in a push chair, wheel chair or for visually impaired people? Will those with front gardens all convert them to driveways so they can get the car up to the front of the house to recharge (so much for eCars green credentials!)? Or will all of our pavements be dug up so that there can be recharging points every few yards? And with all of these new charging points, where are all the new segregated cycleways going to go? Jus' wonderin', like.


*Actually I'm sure it has, but I've missed it as usual.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Spinners » 4 Aug 2019, 5:26pm

I was thinking about the recharging aspect of e-cars for terraced house occupiers the other day and reckon all the PPI & ambulance chasers will soon move into "tripped over a cable". I can just hear the jingle now...

That aside, I think changes to the urban landscape will be slow and barely perceptible. But, with money to be made, who knows?
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby pwa » 4 Aug 2019, 5:37pm

I raised these issues some time ago on this forum, especially the potential problem for blind or elderly people of having cables draped over pavements, and was assured that this will not be a problem. So that's okay then.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby reohn2 » 4 Aug 2019, 6:36pm

pwa wrote:I raised these issues some time ago on this forum, especially the potential problem for blind or elderly people of having cables draped over pavements, and was assured that this will not be a problem. So that's okay then.

I don't think it'll be a problem because it won't happen,housholders can't just lay cables across pavements.
I can see areas set aside for charging but they're more likely to be in car parks where people who live with no off street parking will charge their cars.
But before then I hope the UK wakes up to a better form of personal day to day transport that will minimise car use.
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby kwackers » 4 Aug 2019, 6:48pm

I do think charging at home is a slightly odd thing.
Why do people want to do it? It's never occurred to them to run a petrol line to their car so why should they worry about running a power line?
Why not simply go somewhere and charge it up?
Folk obviously do it since there are always cars charging at the supermarket / cinema etc when I'm out and about. I don't see why that won't simply expand.

Anyway the problem at the moment is that there is no problem.
There are lots of potential solutions but they're not yet needed. Once the number of cars start to increase then we'll start to see solutions being implemented.

On the positive side hopefully it'll mean all those folk who park on the pavement outside their houses because they can't be bothered using their drive will have an incentive to do so.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Aug 2019, 6:49pm

I still think that at the present time, E-cars are a non-starter (that's ironic!) for most people. The difficulty of home charging is a major obstacle, it will almost certainly mean that most people without a driveway or garage simply won't buy one.

But apparently that's not quite true. We have learnt of least two residents in our town (which doesn't have a single working public charge point!) own E-cars but can't charge them at home. One of them, it seems, works in nearby Haywards Heath and charges his car near his workplace. He has no other option. The other, I don't know what his arrangements are. One thing's for certain though: neither of these guys trails cables across the pavement. That way spells trouble!

I can also say that one of our fellow Green councillors does run an E-car - but for her it's no problem because she has a driveway. She urged me to switch my diesel (another blot on my Green credentials :oops: ) for an electric, but I'm afraid that doesn't work out for me - for different reasons. I'd need an 800 Km range, and that's not going to happen with any design soon! We just don't have the technology...
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Aug 2019, 6:54pm

kwackers wrote:Why not simply go somewhere and charge it up?
I've already said that in our town (Burgess Hill, pop. 30,000) there is not a single public charge point in working order (there are two, but neither of them is in service).

But the main obstacle is the time factor. You can fill up a car's tank with fuel in two or three minutes. To charge an E-car fully takes half an hour or more, depending on the type of charger. And you will need to make more recharge stops, because the range is nothing like that of a full tank of petrol or diesel.
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby reohn2 » 4 Aug 2019, 6:55pm

If the UK really gets to grips with the issue there'll be wind turbines and solar panels at every park and ride,supermarket,cinema,etc car park so that the draw from the national grid will be be minmised and when the chargers aren't all being used that same wind and solar banks can be feeding electricity back into the nat grid.
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby reohn2 » 4 Aug 2019, 7:03pm

661-Pete wrote: .......But the main obstacle is the time factor. You can fill up a car's tank with fuel in two or three minutes. To charge an E-car fully takes half an hour or more, depending on the type of charger. And you will need to make more recharge stops, because the range is nothing like that of a full tank of petrol or diesel.

Which is just a matter of self organisation by the owner.I'm thinking most Ecars will be able to do 150 to 200miles plus between charges,for most car owners that's one charge per week,and if a standardised quick change battery can be agreed on between manufacturers there's no reason why battery swap stations can't be brought on stream in the future.
The roofs of such stations could be festooned with solar panels and a wind turbine on site :) ,or is that too much advanced thinking for business to sort out? :wink:

EDIIT,just to add,I can't see why a forward thinking socially responsible government wouldn't be looking more into subsidising solving the nation's power problems in the future and putting more emphasis on more wind and water turbines on appropriate sites throughout the country along with solar panels on as many roofs as possible.
I suffer no illusions about solar and wind and water turbine power but all can be contributory to the nations power needs.
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Bsteel » 4 Aug 2019, 7:19pm

reohn2 wrote:if a standardised quick change battery can be agreed on between manufacturers there's no reason why battery swap stations can't be brought on stream in the future.


I believe the Tesla models S was designed with battery swap as an option, the idea being that fast charging came free with the car purchase but a battery swap would be charged at a similar cost to petrol. Not sure if it ever went beyond a pilot project.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby landsurfer » 4 Aug 2019, 7:25pm

I think ECARS are a long way away as a takeover technology ... the hybrid self charging vehicle is a much more obvious next tech.
And autonomous vehicles ... well, the future for them is in agriculture and replacing HGV's .... Scania and Volvo are already trialing overhead lines as power supplies for HGV's and the agri sector allows the use and development of hybrid autonomous vehicles without killing swathes of people ...
Cables draped across the pavements ... chargers in every lamppost ... doubt it ...
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby kwackers » 4 Aug 2019, 7:32pm

landsurfer wrote: the hybrid self charging vehicle is a much more obvious next tech

Every I hear the phrase "self charging" I both laugh and frown at the same time.

Self charging means carrying your generator with you. It runs on petrol so you charge your battery by running a generator that you're lugging around on petrol...
Why is that even a thing?

Now plug in hybrids make far more sense.
The typical 30 mile range is a bit poor but that'll climb. I reckon 95% of journeys I do are less than 20 miles so a plug in hybrid would just take the occasional sip of the stuff for me and I suspect the majority of other people too with just occasional use of the old volatiles.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby kwackers » 4 Aug 2019, 7:36pm

661-Pete wrote:
kwackers wrote:Why not simply go somewhere and charge it up?
I've already said that in our town (Burgess Hill, pop. 30,000) there is not a single public charge point in working order (there are two, but neither of them is in service).

But the main obstacle is the time factor. You can fill up a car's tank with fuel in two or three minutes. To charge an E-car fully takes half an hour or more, depending on the type of charger. And you will need to make more recharge stops, because the range is nothing like that of a full tank of petrol or diesel.

Time factor isn't an obstacle.

You're still thinking like a petrol head. You don't need to make a special petrol station visit to fill up your car, why not simply fill up at your destination?

Most folk go places in their cars, not just to petrol stations and back. Shops, pubs, eating out, cinema, bowling alleys.
Once the demand is there chargers will pop up like weeds.

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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby landsurfer » 4 Aug 2019, 7:46pm

kwackers wrote:
landsurfer wrote: the hybrid self charging vehicle is a much more obvious next tech

Every I hear the phrase "self charging" I both laugh and frown at the same time.

Self charging means carrying your generator with you. It runs on petrol so you charge your battery by running a generator that you're lugging around on petrol...
Why is that even a thing?


Possibly your Model T does not have an alternator but many modern vehicles do .... its amazing .... it charges the battery for starting the vehicle, provides lighting and many more things and can even charge a traction battery with it's excess available output. Entropy will lead to a point where more fuel will have to pe provided from an external sourse, even if the traction battery only charges on the over run .. .. :)
However ..
I both laugh and frown at the same time at your lack of understanding of engineering .... :D
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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Aug 2019, 7:47pm

kwackers wrote:You're still thinking like a petrol head. You don't need to make a special petrol station visit to fill up your car, why not simply fill up at your destination?
I think most people "think like petrolheads" when the subject of E-cars crops up .... this is the first time I've been called one! :roll:

All I'll say is that, it's not feasible for us in our present circumstances because of the range and lack of charge points - not to mention the initial cost! But hopefully things will change. Will it happen in our lifetimes?

Yes the Tesla seems to be the most advanced in terms of technology, but at nearly £40,000 for even the most basic model.... :shock:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).