E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
merseymouth
Posts: 1116
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby merseymouth » 5 Aug 2019, 7:48am

Hello all, Why have the Japanese "K" Class be left out of the mix? All too often people insist on having unreasonably over-size vehicles in areas where they pose great risks! If every vehicle that was illegally parked on pavements faced due process then maybe things might change.
Why should I lose the safe area, pavement, just because others choose to break the law?
The solution may not be merely switching over to electric, the real solution is surely less cars full stop!
The electrification process with my tricycle nears completion, then there will be one more 21st Century Milk Float on the road. TTFN MM

reohn2
Posts: 36363
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby reohn2 » 5 Aug 2019, 8:00am

merseymouth wrote:Hello all, Why have the Japanese "K" Class be left out of the mix? .........

Because in the UK the marketeers are in charge(sorry)of the market and not legislation or government incentives.
Yes there's no VED on small and electric car but there's no load on owning a large 4x4,SUV or some of the larger and or more powerful cars on the road.

And I do agree with you point about illegal parking stealing the pedestrian's safe space,the government could crackdown on it but chooses to turn a blind eye.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

pwa
Posts: 10453
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby pwa » 5 Aug 2019, 8:04am

merseymouth wrote:Hello all, Why have the Japanese "K" Class be left out of the mix? All too often people insist on having unreasonably over-size vehicles in areas where they pose great risks! If every vehicle that was illegally parked on pavements faced due process then maybe things might change.
Why should I lose the safe area, pavement, just because others choose to break the law?
The solution may not be merely switching over to electric, the real solution is surely less cars full stop!
The electrification process with my tricycle nears completion, then there will be one more 21st Century Milk Float on the road. TTFN MM


I get the main point of this post, but on one particular detail, is pavement parking actually illegal where you are? I believe it is in London, but in most other parts of the UK it is not. That then leaves it up to enforcers to judge whether the way a vehicle is parked constitutes an obstruction, the presence of two wheels on the pavement not being an offence in itself. But I agree with your conclusion that replacing lots of ICE cars with lots of electric cars will still leave us with lots of cars.

tatanab
Posts: 3776
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby tatanab » 5 Aug 2019, 8:20am

pwa wrote:is pavement parking actually illegal where you are? I believe it is in London, but in most other parts of the UK it is not. That then leaves it up to enforcers to judge whether the way a vehicle is parked constitutes an obstruction, the presence of two wheels on the pavement not being an offence in itself.
Correct, obstruction is the offence; but pavement driving is illegal, as we are reminded regularly in anti cycling letters to newspapers (driving a cycle on the footway), so how did they get there? As it happens, pavement parking is illegal in my local small city. Is it enforced? Not in living memory.

The seemingly social acceptance of pavement parking is precisely why cables stretched across the pavement will become common. If enough people do it then it becomes the norm.

Up the thread a little, somebody posted about exchange batteries. That is something I thought would be the logical way to go. One battery standard in a cassette that can be changed at an exchange station in a couple of minutes. Sadly, the idea of an international standard is unlikely to happen.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 46797
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Mick F » 5 Aug 2019, 8:56am

Si wrote: ............the eCar revolution .........
There isn't one.
Mick F. Cornwall

Hobbs1951
Posts: 404
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Hobbs1951 » 5 Aug 2019, 9:08am

E-cars will not reduce congestion or eliminate emissions, cars clutter the environment with modest houses having 2 or 3 car owners in residence, already too many terraced/semi house front gardens are car parks - that's before you get me onto caravans and vans.

John.

francovendee
Posts: 986
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby francovendee » 5 Aug 2019, 9:12am

E cars offer a lot of advantages in terms of pollution and there is growing market for them. The mass of motorists will be content to sit back and watch how the users fare day to day.
To remove IC cars from the road will need drastic measures which any government knows won't be popular, cost them votes and be deemed to be unaffordable.
Lifestyles, common today will have to change. Live closer to work, cycle or walk and use public transport if you can and it exists.
Learn to wean yourself away from relying on a car. It won't be easy for most of us but it's some way off yet.

reohn2
Posts: 36363
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby reohn2 » 5 Aug 2019, 9:19am

Mick F wrote:
Si wrote: ............the eCar revolution .........
There isn't one.

Not yet maybe,but it's coming :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

softlips
Posts: 528
Joined: 12 Dec 2016, 8:51pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby softlips » 5 Aug 2019, 9:38am

I run a hybrid and charge in my garage. I really like it to be honest and would try to go full electric next time.

On most streets you find tall structures with lights on top :D Many countries are no using these as charging points. Plus people charge while parked at work etc. I have a friend with a Tesla and he has a coffee once a week while he charges up at a rapid charge point.

The e revolution is coming. I’m amazed at the number of electric taxis in London, they’ve been available only a year and are everywhere! Give people a financial incentive and it will happen.

kwackers
Posts: 13732
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby kwackers » 5 Aug 2019, 9:50am

Cunobelin wrote:Because the systems are different?
I will top up my car on the way home tonight. It is on my way home and will take 2 or three minutes, however, if I nip to a public charger with an electric car that maybe 5 or not 6 hours

It depends on the power output of the chargers. and even with the highest output is over an hour for a top-up

What exactly is a "top up"?

Watch folk fill up at the petrol station and they typically put in £5-£20 worth of fuel.
I'd consider that "topping up".

If you're just "topping up" your EV then 5 or 10 mins is probably more than enough. Personally I'd nip to the supermarket and pick up some shopping and top up there, or more likely simply charge it at work.
Obviously the argument at the moment is "I live and work at x and there are no chargers" and that's fair enough, but chargers are easy to fit and as demand rises they'll start to appear.

In the meantime obviously not every one will be able to have an EV. If you don't live or work anywhere you can charge and there are no local fast chargers then they're not for you - yet.

User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 7804
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby al_yrpal » 5 Aug 2019, 9:54am

merseymouth wrote:Hello all, Why have the Japanese "K" Class be left out of the mix? All too often people insist on having unreasonably over-size vehicles in areas where they pose great risks! If every vehicle that was illegally parked on pavements faced due process then maybe things might change.
Why should I lose the safe area, pavement, just because others choose to break the law?
The solution may not be merely switching over to electric, the real solution is surely less cars full stop!
The electrification process with my tricycle nears completion, then there will be one more 21st Century Milk Float on the road. TTFN MM


2 pints please :mrgreen:

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 7804
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby al_yrpal » 5 Aug 2019, 10:15am

All this thread demonstrates is that there are huge obstacles to EVs becoming the norm, not least is a massive change of lifestyle that will no doubt be strongly resisted.
In multi car families who have a place where a second vehicle (electric) can be charged the EV will make perfect sense because it might actually one day become cheaper to buy and run. Otherwise within families living in dense housing with limited means an EV will not be a realistic choice because of its range and the difficulty charging. One only has to look at the development of the internet which only requires a thin fibre cable to be in place everywhere to observe the very slow progress to universality. EV acceptance and distribution will progress even slower because the technology, cost and infrastructure aint nowhere near there yet.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

kwackers
Posts: 13732
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby kwackers » 5 Aug 2019, 10:47am

al_yrpal wrote:EV acceptance and distribution will progress even slower because the technology, cost and infrastructure aint nowhere near there yet.

Al

Hate to tell you this but EV infrastructure isn't even remotely the same as internet infrastructure.
The internet requires special cables to be laid, EV's on the other hand just need a socket fitting to a lampost. You can even simply make a charging station that is a large battery powered by solar and a few such examples exist.
In short infrastructure can be fitted as fast as is needed.

There are only two barriers to mass adoption of EV's at the moment. Price and supply. They're expensive and you can't easily get one of the next gen models without joining a year long waiting list.
As price drops and waiting lists disappear then infrastructure will match sales and IC will start to have infrastructure problems as petrol stations stop being profitable.

For some it is going to be a problem, but for most it won't. A large percentage of folk have drives and there are a lot of places public chargers can be fitted.
In five years time nobody who has a choice will willingly buy an IC car.

EV sales are about to go exponential of that there is no doubt.

tatanab
Posts: 3776
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby tatanab » 5 Aug 2019, 10:59am

Home charging is an open door for vandals. All those lovely cables to cut on your way home in the wee hours, or can they not be simply unplugged. I am certain that is inevitable and might become another reason for people not to go electric.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1956
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Aug 2019, 11:03am

So what happens when today you but an eRenault for the price of a Jaguar, only for the next lot of cars to have a massively greater range for less money? Does your little Renault become worthless?

The economics are complicated.
John

Cycling and recycling