** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[pete75]

I think there are lots of people who see Brexit as a way of getting under the radar of Big Capitalist EU

Like this?

Didn't he grow up to become Nigel Farage?

[al_yrpal]

The broadcast on no deal food was on the BBC TV lunchtine news. They spoke to long established big wholesalers in fruit veg and fish markets instead of the usual bunch of negative miserable anti Brexit pundits who are always trying to feed project fear. The wholesalers all said leaving the EU would be beneficial for consumers.

Al

If I was a wholesaler I'd be well up for a sellers market too.

Shame the actual organisations they belong to think somewhat differently.
In fact it's hard to imagine a scenario where things wouldn't get harder under a hard brexit.
Did they explain how it would?

No,
They just seemed to be giving their opinion. They werent in London either. Wholesalers just work on margins so it really wont matter to them. If there are shortages they up their margin, if there is a glut they narrow them. They expect things will get better for consumers after Brexit with increased supply from non EU sources which will bring food prices down. This will obviously make things more challenging for producers including farmers and fishermen.

Al

[PDQ Mobile]

The broadcast on no deal food was on the BBC TV lunchtine news. They spoke to long established big wholesalers in fruit veg and fish markets instead of the usual bunch of negative miserable anti Brexit pundits who are always trying to feed project fear. The wholesalers all said leaving the EU would be beneficial for consumers.

Al

If I was a wholesaler I'd be well up for a sellers market too.

Shame the actual organisations they belong to think somewhat differently.
In fact it's hard to imagine a scenario where things wouldn't get harder under a hard brexit.
Did they explain how it would?

No,
They just seemed to be giving their opinion. They werent in London either. Wholesalers just work on margins so it really wont matter to them. If there are shortages they up their margin, if there is a glut they narrow them. They expect things will get better for consumers after Brexit with increased supply from non EU sources which will bring food prices down. This will obviously make things more challenging for producers including farmers and fishermen.

Al

Why will it bring food prices down?
Seeing as we import some from them already. Supply and demand would suggest price rises, as does a much weakened pound.

Do you have no concerns about unnecessary transport distances, taking food away from hungrier nations, unregulated pesticide use.
Water resources etc?

You simply keep climbing up on that particular rose tinted soapbox and never engage with constructive critism.

Personally I think that seeing as you have been proved to be wrong so many times on so many issues that your opinion is not very reliable.

[al_yrpal]

That is ludicrous, nobody ever proves anything here, its all just opinion and mostly with references from dubious highly selective partizan sources. I expect you guzzle Australian and Argentinian wines, eat bananas and other tropical fruits, if so criticising others over food miles is hypocritical. The EU is a protectionist bloc. Thats the way it was conceived. When we break free of its shackles there will be disruption in the short term and long term benefits for the UK consumer. Meanwhile back in the echo chamber....

Al

[mercalia]

what I will say is what is happening now with Boris and his gang refusing to be EU patsys like May, should have happened 2-3 years ago when this game started?

Boris and his gang are doing nothing more than playing the UK electorate in his PR game. They are continually trying to pass blame onto the EU for the disaster they are creating. They keep going on about wanting to negotiate but and set pre-conditions that are totally unacceptable (and that the EU have repeatedly said would be unacceptable from long before Boris even stood in the leadership contest).

In fact Boris' pre-conditions are so major that the EU don't even need to negotiate, as to accept the pre-conditions would be agreeing to everything Boris wants. e.g. I want a pay rise of 10% so threaten striking and will only negotiate of my employer accepts my 10% pay rise - the moment my employer says "yes" to my pre-condition they have agreed to my pay increase!.

I can appreciate the EU's stance. They have spent 3 years negotiating a deal and getting it agreed. Quite how Boris things he can re-negotiate it an a few weeks is just daft. The UK Government has agreed to the negotiated deal. It includes safeguards acceptable to both negotiating parties to safeguard something both parties agreed was very important.

Even ignoring the "rights and wrongs", if the EU suddenly agreed to drop something that cause so much negotiation with the previous UK negotiating team then it would reflect badly on their position, particularly when they drop something argued as so crucial in the fact of threats from the UK. It would send a clear message to other countries negotiating that all they have to do is threaten the EU and the EU gives way.

Ian

yes but had this happened 3 years ago we could have seen it for what it was and not this fake deal of Mays that went on and on and eventually thrown out?

[mercalia]

I think there are lots of people who see Brexit as a way of getting under the radar of Big Capitalist EU

Like this?

Didn't he grow up to become Nigel Farage?

Figel Narage would make a good sitcom character? Now what would be his business?

[Psamathe]

what I will say is what is happening now with Boris and his gang refusing to be EU patsys like May, should have happened 2-3 years ago when this game started?

Boris and his gang are doing nothing more than playing the UK electorate in his PR game. They are continually trying to pass blame onto the EU for the disaster they are creating. They keep going on about wanting to negotiate but and set pre-conditions that are totally unacceptable (and that the EU have repeatedly said would be unacceptable from long before Boris even stood in the leadership contest).

In fact Boris' pre-conditions are so major that the EU don't even need to negotiate, as to accept the pre-conditions would be agreeing to everything Boris wants. e.g. I want a pay rise of 10% so threaten striking and will only negotiate of my employer accepts my 10% pay rise - the moment my employer says "yes" to my pre-condition they have agreed to my pay increase!.

I can appreciate the EU's stance. They have spent 3 years negotiating a deal and getting it agreed. Quite how Boris things he can re-negotiate it an a few weeks is just daft. The UK Government has agreed to the negotiated deal. It includes safeguards acceptable to both negotiating parties to safeguard something both parties agreed was very important.

Even ignoring the "rights and wrongs", if the EU suddenly agreed to drop something that cause so much negotiation with the previous UK negotiating team then it would reflect badly on their position, particularly when they drop something argued as so crucial in the fact of threats from the UK. It would send a clear message to other countries negotiating that all they have to do is threaten the EU and the EU gives way.

Ian

yes but had this happened 3 years ago we could have seen it for what it was and not this fake deal of Mays that went on and on and eventually thrown out?

But Boris has voted for May's deal which included the Irish Backstop.

Ian

[pete75]

Boris and his gang are doing nothing more than playing the UK electorate in his PR game. They are continually trying to pass blame onto the EU for the disaster they are creating. They keep going on about wanting to negotiate but and set pre-conditions that are totally unacceptable (and that the EU have repeatedly said would be unacceptable from long before Boris even stood in the leadership contest).

In fact Boris' pre-conditions are so major that the EU don't even need to negotiate, as to accept the pre-conditions would be agreeing to everything Boris wants. e.g. I want a pay rise of 10% so threaten striking and will only negotiate of my employer accepts my 10% pay rise - the moment my employer says "yes" to my pre-condition they have agreed to my pay increase!.

I can appreciate the EU's stance. They have spent 3 years negotiating a deal and getting it agreed. Quite how Boris things he can re-negotiate it an a few weeks is just daft. The UK Government has agreed to the negotiated deal. It includes safeguards acceptable to both negotiating parties to safeguard something both parties agreed was very important.

Even ignoring the "rights and wrongs", if the EU suddenly agreed to drop something that cause so much negotiation with the previous UK negotiating team then it would reflect badly on their position, particularly when they drop something argued as so crucial in the fact of threats from the UK. It would send a clear message to other countries negotiating that all they have to do is threaten the EU and the EU gives way.

Ian

yes but had this happened 3 years ago we could have seen it for what it was and not this fake deal of Mays that went on and on and eventually thrown out?

But Boris has voted for May's deal which included the Irish Backstop.

Ian

As recently as the end of March as did all but two of his cabinet.

[pete75]

That is ludicrous, nobody ever proves anything here, its all just opinion and mostly with references from dubious highly selective partizan sources. I expect you guzzle Australian and Argentinian wines, eat bananas and other tropical fruits, if so criticising others over food miles is hypocritical. The EU is a protectionist bloc. Thats the way it was conceived. When we break free of its shackles there will be disruption in the short term and long term benefits for the UK consumer. Meanwhile back in the echo chamber....

Al

Yes and most of the echoes seem to come from you bleating the same old wishful thinking time and again.

[tony_mm]

Unexpectedly positive BBC News report on no deal food situation. Wholesalers are prepared and largely in favour of Brexit. Main problem anticipated seems to be obstruction by the EU at EU ports.

Al

But we will pay more for the same items.
Good for them as they will make more profit. Not for as consumers...

[mercalia]

yes but had this happened 3 years ago we could have seen it for what it was and not this fake deal of Mays that went on and on and eventually thrown out?

But Boris has voted for May's deal which included the Irish Backstop.

Ian

As recently as the end of March as did all but two of his cabinet.

Consistancy? We are talking about Boris?

[PDQ Mobile]

That is ludicrous, nobody ever proves anything here, its all just opinion and mostly with references from dubious highly selective partizan sources. I expect you guzzle Australian and Argentinian wines, eat bananas and other tropical fruits, if so criticising others over food miles is hypocritical. The EU is a protectionist bloc. Thats the way it was conceived. When we break free of its shackles there will be disruption in the short term and long term benefits for the UK consumer. Meanwhile back in the echo chamber....

Al

Firstly it is a debate.
Yet some facets of that debate are reflected in real happenings.
The falling pound for example.

On the food issue.
You one the one hand assert the EU is some kind of monstrous protectionist block while we all clearly enjoy a vast variety of foodstuffs from all over the world.
It simply does not stand even mild scutiny.
Additionally you accuse the EU (and Euro)of being the cause of all the unemployment in the Med but would prefer to buy all your food from an already starving Africa. With all the negatives that exist in sourcing such food as a basic source but you glibly ignore.
(Sure I eat bananas by the way and I am free to do so, but would always prefer wine from Europe.)

My opinion is mostly my own.
My sources wherever possible are accompanied by citation.

Partisan news outlets are actually your source area.

Back here:-
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&start=7590

you were quoting verbatim from the ultra right Guido Fawkes web presence!
Though you denied it at first but then conceded it was the case.

As I said above I think your opinion has been pretty much shown to be erroneous and unreliable.
It is IMV based upon an irrational hatred of all things EU.
It is a hatred I do not share.

[roubaixtuesday]

That is ludicrous, nobody ever proves anything here, its all just opinion and mostly with references from dubious highly selective partizan sources. I expect you guzzle Australian and Argentinian wines, eat bananas and other tropical fruits, if so criticising others over food miles is hypocritical. The EU is a protectionist bloc. Thats the way it was conceived. When we break free of its shackles there will be disruption in the short term and long term benefits for the UK consumer. Meanwhile back in the echo chamber....

Al

Your opinion, is alas entirely at odds with the facts.

The genesis of the EU was the Schumann declaration.

It proposed economic ties to make war between European nations inconceivable.

The EU was conceived as a peace project.

This is a simple fact, quote:

To ...'make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible'.

[bovlomov]

The EU's version of protectionism allows the poorest countries in the world to export many of their products to the EU, tariff free. How unfair!

[mercalia]

According to the Spectator, Whitehall is planning for GE on November 1st

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/wer ... _term=here



A podcast about what MPs can do to stop the no deal

https://audioboom.com/posts/7337122-wha ... op-no-deal