Living without owning an internal combustion engine

[reohn2]

You think we're all doomed, so we should just carry on messing it up?

We have a duty to limit that harm as much as possible for our children, and the future of the human race.

If we're all doomed what's the point- we may as well carry on as we are.

It won't be the end of life on earth we are just one amongst thousands of species many of which we've driven to extinction or the edge of extinction. Is the human race so wonderful it deserves a future? Does any other other species kill vast numbers of it's own kind? Humans have brought the coming catastrophe on themselves.

But what if we aren't doomed? What if some combination of change and technology will allow us to continue and even thrive as a species? What if we can limit further harm enough that we are not doomed?

The human race may have done and be doing horrid things, but we also do wonderful things, works of art, architecture, music, and literature.

Does that mean we deserve to survive? I don't know, but to not even try is like collectively committing suicide, and I don't get to make that choice for others. Maybe the only choice will be to get off the planet because this one won't support human life, but I am confident that that, too is within our reach.

TBH I don't think we stand a chance of interplanetary travel let alone sustaining life if we did.
We have got to turn this huge falsehood juggernaut of consumerist growth thing around or perish the sooner that message is shouted from the roof tops and implemented the better.
Upto now all we've done is tinker at the edges of the capitalist/consumerist/growth(?) at all costs,corrupt system.There is a better way but it involves revolution,revolution against the obscenity of multinational control of the masses,multinational corporations who control governments and sacrifice reason and responsibility to humanity on the alter of short term high profit margins.

IMO the time is running out and the clock is accelerating at an alarming rate,unless something radical is done soon we definitely will see an end to life as we know it.I don't think we're doomed,but I do think there'll be a terrible reduction in humanity's numbers on earth with a remnant of humanity remaining.
The 'clean up' will happen for the most part,naturally and the remnant will need to be strong,ruthless by necessity and able to rebuild a semblance of society.Look at history for the same story but on a smaller scale,empires and societies who seek to dominate and rule by force in the past,capitalism in it's present form is very similar,have collapsed eventually,I can see this happening again,but on a global scale.
We won't survive by leaving the planet IMO.
My 2d's worth

[pete75]

In terms of CO2 output in use an electric car is only about twice as good (if the electricity is generated by fossil fuels) as a vehicle with an IC engine. The CO2 is produced in a different place though. If you are thinking of trading your car in for an electric one, you need to drive it a very long way before the cost of manufacturing the new car is 'paid for'. Some folk say the time for this to happen is longer than the expected life of the new car...


The world is riddled with nosensical things in relation to this; I recently saw a 'Tesla' service van on the road. "Oh, that'll be an electric vehicle then", I thought. Was it heck, it was just another stinky diesel van....

cheers

Since we stopped making things that would last and be repairable it's become the easiest option to just buy new. The cost of parts soon outweigh the price of a new item, cars in particular.
Coming from a time when the thing that 'killed' a car was rust. Engines and gearboxes were repaired but the rot in the bodywork couldn't be. Today, a perfectly serviceable car gets dumped because a component that's needed costs a fortune.
If all cars cost two or three times their price then repairing them would make economic sense. It would also cut down on the use of carbon to produce new ones. This will never happen as the car companies have too much clout and we've all gotten used to having the latest new thing.
As you posted ' We're all doomed'

Yep. In Egypt where cars don't rust there's loads of old Peugeot 504 cars running around mostly in good condition with estates seeming to be the countries workhorse or should that be workcamel. As an Egyptian told me cars are very expensive but labour costs to maintain and repair them are low.

[pete75]

'snot.

So tell me how you haven't used any resources or caused any pollution?

It would be quite hard for anyone to comment here on your posts without using any resources!

(in fact, even reading your statements about the future of the planet is affecting it. Gosh what a dilemma ... )

As is reading yours so more hypocrisy.

[mattheus]

So tell me how you haven't used any resources or caused any pollution?

It would be quite hard for anyone to comment here on your posts without using any resources!

(in fact, even reading your statements about the future of the planet is affecting it. Gosh what a dilemma ... )

As is reading yours so more hypocrisy.

I've clearly touched a nerve with you, I hope it's a case of "doth protest too much".

Someone who brags about their 40,000miles-a-year, and states that it makes no difference cos <insert blah>; perhaps underneath the bluster you are actually feeling some guilt, and seeing a chink of light. Let's hope so, and I hope the many who think like you are also realising the flaws underlying their speeches : )

[Vorpal]

Coming from a time when the thing that 'killed' a car was rust. Engines and gearboxes were repaired but the rot in the bodywork couldn't be. Today, a perfectly serviceable car gets dumped because a component that's needed costs a fortune.
If all cars cost two or three times their price then repairing them would make economic sense. It would also cut down on the use of carbon to produce new ones. This will never happen as the car companies have too much clout and we've all gotten used to having the latest new thing.
As you posted ' We're all doomed'

We will have to change.

Cars *should* cost 2 or 3 times their current cost. Maybe more. Petrol and diesel should also cost more.

Some of the cost to repair cars is set by companies that want to sell new ones. Last year, I took our car in for service & they told us we needed a new engine. I don't know if they were incompetent or dishonest, but I googled it & found that same error can be caused by a faulty sensor, so I figured I'd replace it myself, and if it didn't work, we weren't out a great deal of money. It was just the sensor, so we still have a car. If it had needed a new engine, we probably would have just sold it, and not replaced it. But I expect they thought they'd sell me a new car.

[Oldjohnw]

Having already got a car (and one which is not yet ready for the dump) merely getting rid of it will not in itself improve anything in the grand scheme. Using it less and keeping it for emergency use will. Selling a good car is very likely going to result in greater use.

And at the same time reducing general consumption and also meat and dairy.

Trying to avoid being boastful in one area but exploitative elsewhere (I have a niece who boasts of being vegan but will think nothing of doing her Xmas shopping in New York).

[mattheus]

EDIT: in reply to Vorpal's post!

See also:
Light bulbs that can only be replaced by the dealers.

That's a designed-in maintenance cost. <sigh>

[pete75]

It would be quite hard for anyone to comment here on your posts without using any resources!

(in fact, even reading your statements about the future of the planet is affecting it. Gosh what a dilemma ... )

As is reading yours so more hypocrisy.

I've clearly touched a nerve with you, I hope it's a case of "doth protest too much".

Someone who brags about their 40,000miles-a-year, and states that it makes no difference cos <insert blah>; perhaps underneath the bluster you are actually feeling some guilt, and seeing a chink of light. Let's hope so, and I hope the many who think like you are also realising the flaws underlying their speeches : )

No you've haven't and no I don't feel any guilt.

[Samuel D]

[…] and no I don't feel any guilt.

You really shouldn’t boast about that, although a lot of people from your generation do. Thankfully the younger generations, for all their new faults, have a more sensible outlook on energy consumption. Plus they’re poorer and simply can’t afford the great extravagance of their parents. Habits are changing, and I see no reason to give up hope just because some older people think it’s their right to burn a tank of petrol on a whim for pleasure as long as they can afford it. Even if you reject all scientific advice about the consequences of your actions and the need to change them, you won’t live forever.

[pete75]

[…] and no I don't feel any guilt.

You really shouldn’t boast about that, although a lot of people from your generation do. Thankfully the younger generations, for all their new faults, have a more sensible outlook on energy consumption. Plus they’re poorer and simply can’t afford the great extravagance of their parents. Habits are changing, and I see no reason to give up hope just because some older people think it’s their right to burn a tank of petrol on a whim for pleasure as long as they can afford it. Even if you reject all scientific advice about the consequences of your actions and the need to change them, you won’t live forever.

I don't doubt what man made pollution is doing to the earth I just think it's too late to stop it unless extremely drastic action is taken and that just won't happen.
Governments have known about this for a lot longer than us yet still pay mainly lip service to preventing climate change and don't actually do that much about it. The biggest polluter of the lot, the USA, has pulled out of what international agreements there are to prevent it.
Many countries are actually following policies that will increase climate change for example, the leases Trump is granting for oil and gas exploration on public land may cause more climate change pollution than the EU produces annually and China is planning to build about 500 coal fired power stations over the next ten years. This is the opposite of the drastic action needed to save the world.
The most immediate threat is likely to be water wars along with people trying to migrate from places suffering increasing desertification to those that aren't with all the strife, death and mayhem that will cause. Food shortages will increase as both desertification and sea level rises remove large areas of currently productive farmland further intensifying population movements and the associated tensions.

[bagpussctc]

On a lighter note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

[fastpedaller]

Re cars and parts cost...
I run a 40 year old kit car - recycling eh? and getting parts (or quality parts) is getting more difficult. I put a new front track control arm on, and it lasted only 2k miles! The one on the other side was at least 11 years old (that's how long I've owned the car) and it was in better condition. Now 'rectified' with other new parts of a different make (these are all 'pattern parts' of course, no original available) and these have fared better so far.
Over 2 my Wife's car (3 years old) and new front brake pads were priced at £154 a set! This is a 'budget' car which uses carry-over parts from the manufacturer's parts bin. So I ask if the parts are the same as the other model (no they are different part number). Looking at the brake manufacturer's drawings the parts are the same, and only £23 - so I've bought those (heck they have a different part number, I'm doomed). Just goes to show what devious trickery is happening out there.

[pete75]

Re cars and parts cost...
I run a 40 year old kit car - recycling eh? and getting parts (or quality parts) is getting more difficult. I put a new front track control arm on, and it lasted only 2k miles! The one on the other side was at least 11 years old (that's how long I've owned the car) and it was in better condition.

What sort?

[francovendee]

Coming from a time when the thing that 'killed' a car was rust. Engines and gearboxes were repaired but the rot in the bodywork couldn't be. Today, a perfectly serviceable car gets dumped because a component that's needed costs a fortune.
If all cars cost two or three times their price then repairing them would make economic sense. It would also cut down on the use of carbon to produce new ones. This will never happen as the car companies have too much clout and we've all gotten used to having the latest new thing.
As you posted ' We're all doomed'

We will have to change.

Cars *should* cost 2 or 3 times their current cost. Maybe more. Petrol and diesel should also cost more.

Some of the cost to repair cars is set by companies that want to sell new ones. Last year, I took our car in for service & they told us we needed a new engine. I don't know if they were incompetent or dishonest, but I googled it & found that same error can be caused by a faulty sensor, so I figured I'd replace it myself, and if it didn't work, we weren't out a great deal of money. It was just the sensor, so we still have a car. If it had needed a new engine, we probably would have just sold it, and not replaced it. But I expect they thought they'd sell me a new car.

There's the rub, most car owners don't have the knowledge or skill to do what you did. Most would say' how much will you give me as a trade in'? This thread is about IC cars but the thread drift has shown the effect of going electric may be the future but many other factors such as goods being repairable and having a longer life will do as much, if not more, for sustainability of our planet. Using less by whatever means is one answer.

[Oldjohnw]

Coming from a time when the thing that 'killed' a car was rust. Engines and gearboxes were repaired but the rot in the bodywork couldn't be. Today, a perfectly serviceable car gets dumped because a component that's needed costs a fortune.
If all cars cost two or three times their price then repairing them would make economic sense. It would also cut down on the use of carbon to produce new ones. This will never happen as the car companies have too much clout and we've all gotten used to having the latest new thing.
As you posted ' We're all doomed'

We will have to change.

Cars *should* cost 2 or 3 times their current cost. Maybe more. Petrol and diesel should also cost more.

Some of the cost to repair cars is set by companies that want to sell new ones. Last year, I took our car in for service & they told us we needed a new engine. I don't know if they were incompetent or dishonest, but I googled it & found that same error can be caused by a faulty sensor, so I figured I'd replace it myself, and if it didn't work, we weren't out a great deal of money. It was just the sensor, so we still have a car. If it had needed a new engine, we probably would have just sold it, and not replaced it. But I expect they thought they'd sell me a new car.

There's the rub, most car owners don't have the knowledge or skill to do what you did. Most would say' how much will you give me as a trade in'? This thread is about IC cars but the thread drift has shown the effect of going electric may be the future but many other factors such as goods being repairable and having a longer life will do as much, if not more, for sustainability of our planet. Using less by whatever means is one answer.

+1, at least. All consumer goods.