Is electric the end of the bike as we know it

[Cunobelin]

I think it's important to understand just how man people in NL cycle well into their 80's and even 90's,which in turn a fall for such elderly people more often may lead death or serious injury,that a young person may just shrug off.

The link I gave (
Interesting PDF to download ) does a lot of that

[Cunobelin]

In any case, I always thought that the main point of a Harley was the noise - in comparison with the other motorbikes in the neighbourhood a bit like Concorde among the 727s. Less objectionable, too.

Nothing that a noise generator cannot fix.

In the early days, electric vans were showing an increase in pedestrian accidents, and it was suggested that pedestrians were not hearing them, fitting noise generators sorted that and accidents declined

[reohn2]

I cycled in Copenhagen and the Netherlands (mostly Utrecht, day trip to Houten) this year. Experiencing it is everything.

What I loved most - my partner (who rarely cycles in the UK due to fear of traffic) cycling everywhere. We used bikes to get everywhere - shops, sight seeing, out for dinner or the pub. There's just no reason not to cycle and no pre-planning is needed. Google map cycle directions gets you around on protected cycleways or quiet streets.

Houten is a whole different level of cycling provision and prioritising walking and cycling. It was bliss.

And that folks is it in a nutshell,especially the bit in bold.
Thanks Amaferanga for making it simply understood

[reohn2]

I think it's important to understand just how man people in NL cycle well into their 80's and even 90's,which in turn a fall for such elderly people more often may lead death or serious injury,that a young person may just shrug off.

The link I gave (
Interesting PDF to download ) does a lot of that

The link says it all

[Wanlock Dod]

..., were is the incentive for people to cycle in from the periphery when it takes you at least twice as far distance wise and increases the opportunities to get squashed because the route crosses multiple more junctions with killing machines? ...

This is arguably straying a little off topic, but for the benefit of anybody who hasn't actually experienced cycling in The Netherlands first hand this short video shows both of the types of Dutch routes discussed so far. Firstly the "knotpoint" based touring routes which use green signs and are primarily for recreational and leisure cycling in the first part of the video before the bridge crossing. Secondly (after about two and a half minutes or so) those inconvenient and dangerous utility cycling routes which follow the roads between towns and villages. It is a fair way from any of the main areas which are famous for providing for cycling such as Amsterdam, Utrecht, and Groningen. How does it compare to the kind of facilities that riders from Little Britain are more used to experiencing?

[youtube]FFr0G2zZYx0[/youtube]

[Cugel]

It comes to us all. Where are the entrepreneurs with their hip protectors? These are what we olepharts need, not the plastic hats.

Wouldn't sturdier bikes, more upright position, fatter tyres and wider handlebars help protect the rider more? Or recumbent tricycles? Or velomobiles? All usually pooh-poohed by CTC traditionalists clinging to their lightweight narrow-tyred drop-handlebar steeds... although maybe wide long-flap saddlebags might also protect the hips...

Anyway, all those are much easier to use where you've got cycleways that are fit for purpose, without stupid narrow barriers, tight slaloms or crazy zero-radius corners - where you've got Dutch or Danish build quality, in short.

I suppose ultimate safe spaces for every lad & lass might be the dreamy wish of many. For some reason, probably to do with a rough but ever-so-pleasurable childhood, I've come to prefer the risky environments of the real world met with a long-honed ability to assess the risks of the prickly thing and avoid them where possible.

Is this the best approach for all? Perhaps not. Many these days seem to have acquired a fundamental assumption that "someone" should keep them safe at all times. Myself, I would become restive if kept safe. perhaps breaking out and immediately getting run over by a Large Thing or eaten by a Kraken because of lack of the experience to deal with such dangers.

Mind, this seems to happen quite often even to those who have been kept very safe indeed until they are "adults".

Cugel, still on the right side f the cliff edge.