Help Choosing A Helmet

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
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Sweep
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Sweep » 19 Aug 2019, 10:39pm

Er no, it's someone relating an experience (no reason to think anything was invented) and asking for a bit of advice on a practical choice.
Sometimes things can be just so simple.
Did you get a new lid witterings?
Would be interested in what you went for.
Sweep

Witterings
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Witterings » 20 Aug 2019, 9:58am

Sweep wrote:Er no, it's someone relating an experience (no reason to think anything was invented) and asking for a bit of advice on a practical choice.
Sometimes things can be just so simple.
Did you get a new lid witterings?
Would be interested in what you went for.


Thank you for asking .... I haven't yet, I'm currently borrowing my boy's when needed until I get a replacement ... I also need a Torque Wrench and was thinking I may see if Halfords do one for bikes and if it's included in the accessories that they're offering a helmet with it's at least worth trying one on ... if not when I go into town (which isn't that often) they have the Specialized one I linked to on Hargroves so will nip in and try one on and see how it fits.

rmurphy195
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby rmurphy195 » 22 Aug 2019, 10:00am

For your torque wrench - I use a Topeak Combo on the bike, very handy. https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/topeak-combo-torq-wrench/rp-prod137802
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
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Sweep
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Sweep » 22 Aug 2019, 10:15am

yebbut do you even need a torque wrench witterings?

Do you have a carbon bike?

I understand that you are aiming to hit the purchase amount for the promising sounding offer on the helmet, but Halfords also do some decent tools/bike bits and bobs.
Sweep

Witterings
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Witterings » 22 Aug 2019, 11:29am

The Topeak one was one of the one's I was looking at ... I've stripped a couple of bolt heads recently and am guessing it's where I've done them up too tight as the nm is clearly marked on the ones I've killed

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freiston
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby freiston » 26 Aug 2019, 2:23pm

Sweep wrote:Er no, it's someone relating an experience (no reason to think anything was invented) and asking for a bit of advice on a practical choice.
Sometimes things can be just so simple.
Did you get a new lid witterings?
Would be interested in what you went for.

Er no, as well as vaguely relating the details of the collision, the OP also stated the belief that the helmet did a good job in protecting the head because it smashed up on impact. If I taped eggs to my head and thrust my head to within half an inch of the desk in front of me, they would most likely smash too but I would not draw the conclusion that they made any valuable contribution to keeping my head safe. I'm not saying that such an impact is comparable to the OP's collision but the logic is the same - the conclusion given in the OP is an opinion as to the effectiveness of a helmet's effectiveness and not a fact. It also is the main premise for the advice sought.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

gregoryoftours
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby gregoryoftours » 26 Aug 2019, 6:27pm

I currently have a carnac podium SL. £15 cheapy from planet X. A little thinner than others so probably not quite as much impact protection but arguably less chance of rotation injury if you go in for that. It's the most comfortable, lightest and well vented helmet I've owned yet, and there is no more wind noise than not wearing a helmet (my last, a specialized vice created a lot of extra noise). These add up to me wearing it more than I would otherwise. I know they are not the be all and end all of protection but if you do happen to smack your head hard on the ground during a crash as has happened to me they can help.

tim-b
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby tim-b » 26 Aug 2019, 9:02pm

Hi
...and my Carnac Notar SLA (also from Planet-X) is a quoted 185g, or less than half that of the 405g helmet weight given above, and it doesn't give any noticeable additional wind noise, neck ache, or any other ergonomic problems
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Witterings
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Witterings » 26 Aug 2019, 11:12pm

freiston wrote:
Sweep wrote:Er no, as well as vaguely relating the details of the collision, the OP also stated the belief that the helmet did a good job in protecting the head because it smashed up on impact.


I didn't say it smashed up .... I said it smashed into the ground ... in other words it hit the ground very hard ... the helmet is actually still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it apart from where some of the plastic covering's been removed by the impact.

I seriously wonder how much damage I would have actually done to me head if I hadn't of been wearing a helmet though especially as my head definitely took as much ... if not more ... of the impact as any other part of my body.

I've just been discharged from having my dressings replaced at the surgery on my elbow / knee, and both my elbow and hip are still incredibly tender / bruised 3 1/2 weeks later ... I just wish I'd had a helmet on those parts as well!

Bonefishblues
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Bonefishblues » 26 Aug 2019, 11:36pm

Good to hear you're on the mend.

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freiston
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby freiston » 27 Aug 2019, 12:20am

Witterings wrote:
freiston wrote:
Sweep wrote:Er no, as well as vaguely relating the details of the collision, the OP also stated the belief that the helmet did a good job in protecting the head because it smashed up on impact.


I didn't say it smashed up .... I said it smashed into the ground ... in other words it hit the ground very hard ... the helmet is actually still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it apart from where some of the plastic covering's been removed by the impact.

I seriously wonder how much damage I would have actually done to me head if I hadn't of been wearing a helmet though especially as my head definitely took as much ... if not more ... of the impact as any other part of my body.

I've just been discharged from having my dressings replaced at the surgery on my elbow / knee, and both my elbow and hip are still incredibly tender / bruised 3 1/2 weeks later ... I just wish I'd had a helmet on those parts as well!

Either way, you said it smashed. Now you're saying that it smashed but is intact and there is hardly any perceivable damage :roll: - it seems like you didn't hit your head/helmet as hard as you first made it seem - sounds like cognitive bias to me. With respect to wishing you had a helmet on other parts of your body - why not buy these and cycle in them? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-313366-sk ... ection-kit
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

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Sweep
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Sweep » 27 Aug 2019, 12:44am

Witterings wrote:
freiston wrote:
Sweep wrote:Er no, as well as vaguely relating the details of the collision, the OP also stated the belief that the helmet did a good job in protecting the head because it smashed up on impact.


I didn't say it smashed up .... I said it smashed into the ground ... in other words it hit the ground very hard ... the helmet is actually still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it apart from where some of the plastic covering's been removed by the impact.

I seriously wonder how much damage I would have actually done to me head if I hadn't of been wearing a helmet though especially as my head definitely took as much ... if not more ... of the impact as any other part of my body.

I've just been discharged from having my dressings replaced at the surgery on my elbow / knee, and both my elbow and hip are still incredibly tender / bruised 3 1/2 weeks later ... I just wish I'd had a helmet on those parts as well!

Glad you are basically ok witterings.
The "smashed up on impact" quote seems to have been attributed to me.
It was of course freiston.
Last edited by Sweep on 27 Aug 2019, 12:57am, edited 1 time in total.
Sweep

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Sweep
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Sweep » 27 Aug 2019, 12:48am

freiston wrote:
Witterings wrote:
freiston wrote:


I didn't say it smashed up .... I said it smashed into the ground ... in other words it hit the ground very hard ... the helmet is actually still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it apart from where some of the plastic covering's been removed by the impact.

I seriously wonder how much damage I would have actually done to me head if I hadn't of been wearing a helmet though especially as my head definitely took as much ... if not more ... of the impact as any other part of my body.

I've just been discharged from having my dressings replaced at the surgery on my elbow / knee, and both my elbow and hip are still incredibly tender / bruised 3 1/2 weeks later ... I just wish I'd had a helmet on those parts as well!

Either way, you said it smashed. Now you're saying that it smashed but is intact and there is hardly any perceivable damage :roll: - it seems like you didn't hit your head/helmet as hard as you first made it seem - sounds like cognitive bias to me. With respect to wishing you had a helmet on other parts of your body - why not buy these and cycle in them? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-313366-sk ... ection-kit

What an incredibly insensitive and arrogant comment.
You also clearly have no idea how helmets work.
I won't test your ignorance further by relating my unfortunate off as a schoolkid.
No wish to have you dismiss the blurred vision I had for several hours as cognitive bias.
Sweep

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freiston
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby freiston » 27 Aug 2019, 1:40am

Sweep wrote:
freiston wrote:
Witterings wrote:
I didn't say it smashed up .... I said it smashed into the ground ... in other words it hit the ground very hard ... the helmet is actually still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it apart from where some of the plastic covering's been removed by the impact.

I seriously wonder how much damage I would have actually done to me head if I hadn't of been wearing a helmet though especially as my head definitely took as much ... if not more ... of the impact as any other part of my body.

I've just been discharged from having my dressings replaced at the surgery on my elbow / knee, and both my elbow and hip are still incredibly tender / bruised 3 1/2 weeks later ... I just wish I'd had a helmet on those parts as well!

Either way, you said it smashed. Now you're saying that it smashed but is intact and there is hardly any perceivable damage :roll: - it seems like you didn't hit your head/helmet as hard as you first made it seem - sounds like cognitive bias to me. With respect to wishing you had a helmet on other parts of your body - why not buy these and cycle in them? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-313366-sk ... ection-kit

What an incredibly insensitive and arrogant comment.
You also clearly have no idea how helmets work.
I won't test your ignorance further by relating my unfortunate off as a schoolkid.
No wish to have you dismiss the blurred vision I had for several hours as cognitive bias.

This is nothing to do with ignorance of how a helmet works or about your incident as a youngster. Nor is it anything to do with insensitivity or arrogance. The role of the helmet in Witterings' collision is no more than supposition and the representation of the severity of the impact and the damage to the helmet (which was used as the premise that the helmet "did such a brilliant job") has been modified by Witterings after discussion (from "smashed" to "still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it...").

I do hope that Witterings makes a full recovery and that he has a safe future cycling but I'm not taking it for granted that his helmet played a crucial role in protecting him and from the wording of the original report to the modified version, I'm not convinced that there is no bias as to the perceived role of the helmet. We still don't know (and surely will never know) what exactly happened but to accept that/treat the critical factor in the collision (and consequent health of Witterings) is the helmet and therefore discuss replacing the helmet without question like it will resolve or safeguard against further safety issues is in my opinion a dangerous fallacy.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

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Cugel
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Re: Help Choosing A Helmet

Postby Cugel » 27 Aug 2019, 9:06am

freiston wrote:
Sweep wrote:
freiston wrote:Either way, you said it smashed. Now you're saying that it smashed but is intact and there is hardly any perceivable damage :roll: - it seems like you didn't hit your head/helmet as hard as you first made it seem - sounds like cognitive bias to me. With respect to wishing you had a helmet on other parts of your body - why not buy these and cycle in them? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-313366-sk ... ection-kit

What an incredibly insensitive and arrogant comment.
You also clearly have no idea how helmets work.
I won't test your ignorance further by relating my unfortunate off as a schoolkid.
No wish to have you dismiss the blurred vision I had for several hours as cognitive bias.

This is nothing to do with ignorance of how a helmet works or about your incident as a youngster. Nor is it anything to do with insensitivity or arrogance. The role of the helmet in Witterings' collision is no more than supposition and the representation of the severity of the impact and the damage to the helmet (which was used as the premise that the helmet "did such a brilliant job") has been modified by Witterings after discussion (from "smashed" to "still intact to the extent you could wonder if there's nothing wrong with it...").

I do hope that Witterings makes a full recovery and that he has a safe future cycling but I'm not taking it for granted that his helmet played a crucial role in protecting him and from the wording of the original report to the modified version, I'm not convinced that there is no bias as to the perceived role of the helmet. We still don't know (and surely will never know) what exactly happened but to accept that/treat the critical factor in the collision (and consequent health of Witterings) is the helmet and therefore discuss replacing the helmet without question like it will resolve or safeguard against further safety issues is in my opinion a dangerous fallacy.


If the helmet polystyrene wasn't compressed flat from it's air-filled state, then it didn't absorb significant energy. For a helmet to absorb the very small amounts of energy it is capable of absorbing, the polystyrene would have to be completely flattened. That's it's function in the helmet.

Many claim a helmet saved their head. In so many cases the helmet got only cosmetic damage because it's flimsy nature amplified the teeny force of a bit of a scrape. The "strapping eggs to your head" mental experiment is a good illustration of the true nature and value of a cycling helmet.

Cugel