Titanium Touring Frame - CdF or ???

[fatdaz73]

Hi all

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before, I did search the forums and couldn't find what I wanted.

I've been doing some 3-4 day unsupported touring using my CX bike with a Thule Pack n Pedal rack and panniers to carry all my camping gear. I have been thoroughly enjoying the experience but I've hit the limitation of what my current wheels, racks and gearing can handle. I'm looking to build a bike to do some loaded touring including JOGLE next year. Ideally I'm looking for the following:

- Titanium
- Available in 56-57mm frame size
- Supports front and rear racks
- Supports 35mm or wider tyres
- Supports 700c wheels
- Supports flat mount disk callipers
- Threaded BB rather than press fit
- Internal cable routing
- At least 3 sets of bottle mounts

These aren't all set in stone but it's my ideal wish list. The Genesis Croix de Fer seems to tick all my boxes but I'm wondering if there is anything else which would be suitable.

On a related note, I know it's not titanium but I'm very interested in the Jamis Renegade Elite. I'm a little put off by the fact that Evans is the UK distributer and I'm not sure what's happening with them at the minute but I still really like the look of the frameset. Does anyone have any experience of the Jamis and is the Elite robust enough to cope with on/off road carrying front and rear panniers?

Thanks

[Bonefishblues]

You've looked at the Spa Elan? They will spec it to suit you and there's at least a couple of happy campers on here, as it were.

[Psamathe]

I don't know about the Ti Croix de Fer and my 725 tubing one is the 2014 model - so designs have undoubtedly changed.

But, my Croix de Fer does not have internal cable routing and only 2 bottle mounts.

I've nothing to compare it to (I got my Croix de Fer when I re-started cycling after many many years) but I've done 2 tours each of 2'ish months loaded with camping and I found it fine. But, I have size 9 feet and the clearance between heel and rear panniers is not much; panniers are mounted as far back as possible. I do have clearance and it is not a problem but there is not a vast gar there.

Also, mudguard clearance of my Croix de Fer is a "challenge". I have 32 tyre and anything bigger would not work with mudguard clearance (I have about 6mm with my 32 tyres).

Using mine for touring I changed the groupset and I thought the compact double and gearing it comes with was not well suited to loaded touring (not on hills). I went for Tiagra 4703 but with a 11-34T rear cassette which Shimano say is an "unsupported" configuration but it works great.

I love the bike as I find it works well for many different uses (recreational rides of a few hours as well as longer distance loaded touring) so I don't want to discourage you. Plus configurations may have changed since I got mine and mine is not the Ti model anyway.

I don't re-make decisions after the event when new product comes out but I do wonder if were I buying today if I'd go for Tour de Fer rather than Croix de Fer (but no ti Tour de Fer).

Ian

[fatdaz73]

Thanks for the considered reply.

I think the Ti is now internal routing but I could be wrong. Likewise I know the 2019 Croix de Fer steel models have a third bottle cage mount so I’m assuming the Ti does having just done a loaded tour in Cornwall with 36-30 as my lowest gear I definitely need to go lower - I will put a variant of the Shimano GRX groupset on the new build to give me 48:31 on the front and 11-32 on the back.

The heel clearance point is an interesting one, I will need to see if I can try one out for size

[reohn2]

Why Ti?
Why internal cable routing?

[fatdaz73]

I love the look of Ti, I fell in love with it a bit when a friend bought a Ti frame 6 years back. I currently have 1 steel, 1 alloy and 1 carbon bikes and I will add a Ti bike to the collection at some point so I figure it may as well be this one.

Internal routing is a personal aesthetic preference but it’s definitely a nice to have for this particular build rather than a show stopper,

[reohn2]

I love the look of Ti, I fell in love with it a bit when a friend bought a Ti frame 6 years back. I currently have 1 steel, 1 alloy and 1 carbon bikes and I will add a Ti bike to the collection at some point so I figure it may as well be this one.

Internal routing is a personal aesthetic preference but it’s definitely a nice to have for this particular build rather than a show stopper,

So purely aethetic then?
That's OK ,I was just wondering.

[Bonefishblues]

Spa Elan no good?

[sizbut]

My vote (because I'm biased by love of what I ride (100 miles this weekend fully loaded with tent, sleep mat, etc)) would be to a Kinesis Tripster ATR with a lovely titanium rack (again purely aesthetic because that's fine). Nice bike for quick sprints, the work commutes - and loaded up with a load of kit still remains a nice bike.

I do miss not being able to put front racks on the carbon forks but this weekend included a test of some Gorilla cages to help spread the load.

[dnrc]

i have a CDF Ti, a 2018 model

I built mine up from F+F. It is a great bike, i love it and pretty much use it for everything nowadays

Mine meets all of your requirements except a couple:

It won't take a front rack (well the carbon fork mine came with doesn't) you could get a different fork though that has rack fixings
Mine only has flat mount brake fittings on the front, I believe the more recent ones have flat mount brakes front and back though

get one, you won't regret it.

[fatdaz73]

Spa Elan no good?

Going to contact them tomorrow- it’s definitely on the short list

[phil parker]

I have the 2019 Croix de Fer Ti (56) frameset, which I used to upgrade from a 2013 725 CdF frameset - and swapped the majority of the bits over (not all were compatible), which was used for 'medium' touring - as is my new Ti bike.

The front carbon fork does have internal cable routing, but will not take a front rack. The rear brake cable is external routing along the down tube and chainstay - but quite unobtrusive. Both gear cable routings are external routing. The front carbon fork does not have 'through hole' for the mudguard mount/front light bracket mount - so I had to improvise and make a mount lower down the fork, on the mudguard mount, to mount the front dyno light. It does support flat disk mounts, but you require mount adaptors front and rear. I swapped my Avid BB7's for TRP Spyres, front and rear, because the clearance to the spokes was to close with the Avid BB7's.

It does have a third set of braze-ons for a water bottle mounting on the underside of the down tube; although I have not used it, just having a quick look at it now, I think clearance might be tight. I also have a heavy duty touring bike and would be reluctant to use the third water bottle mounting unless I was far from civilisation or wanted to use it for a fuel bottle. However, not for me to judge anybody else's requirements!

I currently have 37mm tyres fitted and there is (are?) plenty of clearance with mudguards fitted - indeed, more than on my 725 with only 35mm tyres fitted.

It does have a threaded BB and I have a triple chainset with either 48-38-26 or 46-36-24 options.

I built the 700c wheels myself with a Schmidt front dyno hub and a Hope rear. I use the Tubus Disco rack on the rear, but I'm sure one of the other racks would fit nicely as the rear brake calliper is mounted on the chainstay.

I can't think of anything else useful!

[Jamesh]

Cannondale topstone?

Lynskey vaile?

Ribble gravel ti?

Cheers James

[Bonefishblues]

Spa Elan no good?

Going to contact them tomorrow- it’s definitely on the short list

Value for money is pretty much unbeatable, I think.

[fatdaz73]

I have the 2019 Croix de Fer Ti (56) frameset, which I used to upgrade from a 2013 725 CdF frameset - and swapped the majority of the bits over (not all were compatible), which was used for 'medium' touring - as is my new Ti bike.

The front carbon fork does have internal cable routing, but will not take a front rack. The rear brake cable is external routing along the down tube and chainstay - but quite unobtrusive. Both gear cable routings are external routing. The front carbon fork does not have 'through hole' for the mudguard mount/front light bracket mount - so I had to improvise and make a mount lower down the fork, on the mudguard mount, to mount the front dyno light. It does support flat disk mounts, but you require mount adaptors front and rear. I swapped my Avid BB7's for TRP Spyres, front and rear, because the clearance to the spokes was to close with the Avid BB7's.

It does have a third set of braze-ons for a water bottle mounting on the underside of the down tube; although I have not used it, just having a quick look at it now, I think clearance might be tight. I also have a heavy duty touring bike and would be reluctant to use the third water bottle mounting unless I was far from civilisation or wanted to use it for a fuel bottle. However, not for me to judge anybody else's requirements!

I currently have 37mm tyres fitted and there is (are?) plenty of clearance with mudguards fitted - indeed, more than on my 725 with only 35mm tyres fitted.

It does have a threaded BB and I have a triple chainset with either 48-38-26 or 46-36-24 options.

I built the 700c wheels myself with a Schmidt front dyno hub and a Hope rear. I use the Tubus Disco rack on the rear, but I'm sure one of the other racks would fit nicely as the rear brake calliper is mounted on the chainstay.

I can't think of anything else useful!

Thanks for taking the time to put together such a comprehensive reply Phil