** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mercalia]

Does Ireland not have a say?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -by-issues

yes but the problem is really with the EU?

A report summarising the findings of the government’s official “alternative arrangements” working groups concluded that there are issues with all the scenarios put forward to try to replace the backstop arrangement. There are also specific concerns over whether any technological solution could be delivered to monitor cross-border trade.


Thats only a problem if you insist it has to work 100% rather than as a work in progress? What degree of porousness would be acceptable? The EU says none?

The report should have said there are issues with all the scenarios, including those that envisage the backstop . That would have been a fairer summary of the complete situation, rather than to make out the UKs current position is somehow untenable.

That's not what the Irish are saying.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... onvenience

Simon Coveney is just peeved at the thought of the UK standing up for its self & causing trouble for South Ireland, how dare the British ruffle our feathers, he thinks, and spoil our tax haven game ( viz Apple )

[Psamathe]

Does Ireland not have a say?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -by-issues

yes but the problem is really with the EU?

A report summarising the findings of the government’s official “alternative arrangements” working groups concluded that there are issues with all the scenarios put forward to try to replace the backstop arrangement. There are also specific concerns over whether any technological solution could be delivered to monitor cross-border trade.


Thats only a problem if you insist it has to work 100% rather than as a work in progress? What degree of porousness would be acceptable? The EU says none?

The report should have said there are issues with all the scenarios, including those that envisage the backstop . That would have been a fairer summary of the complete situation, rather than to make out the UKs current position is somehow untenable.

If the UK went for the Norway option there is no issue about "porousness" and seems to me to be a solution without issues.

Particularly given what many prominent supporters of brexit were saying before the EU Referendum
e.g

Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK

Norway gets a better deal than Britain currently does

Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing

etc.

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

But we'd still have to talk to those European persons. Whereas with no deal everything would just fall out of heaven. England would suddenly become self sufficient in everything.

[mercalia]

Does Ireland not have a say?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -by-issues

yes but the problem is really with the EU?

A report summarising the findings of the government’s official “alternative arrangements” working groups concluded that there are issues with all the scenarios put forward to try to replace the backstop arrangement. There are also specific concerns over whether any technological solution could be delivered to monitor cross-border trade.


Thats only a problem if you insist it has to work 100% rather than as a work in progress? What degree of porousness would be acceptable? The EU says none?

The report should have said there are issues with all the scenarios, including those that envisage the backstop . That would have been a fairer summary of the complete situation, rather than to make out the UKs current position is somehow untenable.

If the UK went for the Norway option there is no issue about "porousness" and seems to me to be a solution without issues.

Particularly given what many prominent supporters of brexit were saying before the EU Referendum
e.g

Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK

Norway gets a better deal than Britain currently does

Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing

etc.

Ian

I mentioned a few pages back the ex Iceland PM suggestion, that Temporary EEA membership is the best route out of Europe to give us time to get all sorted out, to our and only our satisfaction, no question then of getting trapped by the EU. We can leave when we want?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-britain-like-iceland-will-thrive-outside-the-eu/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BLND%20%2020190822%20%20%20JO&utm_content=BLND%20%2020190822%20%20%20JO+CID_bc379906161a3e06e20df8a50bc59988&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_term=predicted

[Psamathe]

yes but the problem is really with the EU?

A report summarising the findings of the government’s official “alternative arrangements” working groups concluded that there are issues with all the scenarios put forward to try to replace the backstop arrangement. There are also specific concerns over whether any technological solution could be delivered to monitor cross-border trade.


Thats only a problem if you insist it has to work 100% rather than as a work in progress? What degree of porousness would be acceptable? The EU says none?

The report should have said there are issues with all the scenarios, including those that envisage the backstop . That would have been a fairer summary of the complete situation, rather than to make out the UKs current position is somehow untenable.

If the UK went for the Norway option there is no issue about "porousness" and seems to me to be a solution without issues.

Particularly given what many prominent supporters of brexit were saying before the EU Referendum
e.g

Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK

Norway gets a better deal than Britain currently does

Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing

etc.

Ian

I mentioned a few pages back the ex Iceland PM suggestion, that Temporary EEA membership is the best route out of Europe to give us time to get all sorted out, to our and only our satisfaction, no question then of getting trapped by the EU. We can leave when we want?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-britain-like-iceland-will-thrive-outside-the-eu/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BLND%20%2020190822%20%20%20JO&utm_content=BLND%20%2020190822%20%20%20JO+CID_bc379906161a3e06e20df8a50bc59988&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_term=predicted

My understanding is that joining the EEA would still involve negotiation with the EU who would then need some safeguards about the Irish border should we leave at some point. EFTA membership alone would not be that much help (too many exclusions).

Ian

[georgew]

yes but the problem is really with the EU?

A report summarising the findings of the government’s official “alternative arrangements” working groups concluded that there are issues with all the scenarios put forward to try to replace the backstop arrangement. [b]There are also specific concerns over whether any technological solution could be delivered to monitor cross-border trade.


Thats only a problem if you insist it has to work 100% rather than as a work in progress? What degree of porousness would be acceptable? The EU says none? .......................

I just want you to know that I support you in your argument that it is possible to be just a little bit pregnant.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
If I got this right Blair says a GE will give Tories majority?

[Psamathe]

Hi,
If I got this right Blair says a GE will give Tories majority?

Blair has identified what Piffle is trying to do: blame Labour for stopping Brexit, present himself as the true Martyr to Brexit and thereby kill the Brexit party (or limit the damage), etc.

Two Labour MPs on Newsnight seemed to be on the same message, avoid the bear trap and they'd love an election but not until No-Deal has been stopped at end-Oct. Probably Corbyn will fail to see the trap and ignore all his advisors and fall into the trap and allow Piffle's No-Deal to happen.

Interesting though how all the talking heads (Conservative and Labour oriented ones) were saying that as No 10 are upping the anti, so they have backed themselves into a corner and if Piffle asks for an election and Labour say "not until after end-Oct when we have an extension", No 10 could be a bit stuck in their corner. Having fostered division, encouraged splits and created their own minority (by sacking loyal MPs) to force it to look like they have been forced to a General Election, so Labour could destroy their plans but just saying "yes, but later". I suspect Corbyn is not bright enough to notice and it would be out of character for him to listen to others.

Ian

[Cunobelin]

It might be interesting to do a what if and suppose that the GFA requirements are left to the period when the trade talks are being discussed. We are in a transitional period where nothing changes. we have left but follow EU rules so the borderlessness is intact. We can extend this period by mutual consent. The EU has to struggle with squaring its single market with the GFA. It cant demand the UK stays in the status quo as we have left the EU, we are a third country? How would it proceeed? Bullishly assert the primacy of the single market? Then Ireland has been abandoned? I suspect the GFA would have to be reopened. Its not as if all the violence has ended in the the North? The orignal grouse that ignited it all has gone viz that the Unionists tried to exclude the Siin Fein supporters from power in the North. Very messy, but some times life is like that, thats the reality that the EU wants to avoid at the UKs cost

Does Ireland not have a say?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -by-issues

Apparently not.

It has already been clearly stated that the Government feels Northern Ireland is not capable of dealing with Brexit and that they will be enforcing central Government

[Cunobelin]

There needs to be a final answer.... and the Election is not it

The Brexit PArty is a classic reason why. A corrupt leader with a proven failure to represent his constituents, dodgy financial dealings, a massive threat to NHS and refuses to publish a manifesto

Prior to Brexit, this would have led to demands for an investigation and laughed at

Yet because everything and anything is acceptable so long as they are rabidly pro- Brexit has destroyed any chance of a sensible or meaningful election

[Spinners]

Is there something wrong with the TV broadcaster companies who still try to interview our politians and pundits during outside broadcasts from Westminster?

At this difficult time for our country it would be nice to actually hear our politians explain their thoughts and/or debate alongside others but that's all but impossible when they are being drowned out by the boorish behaviour of protesters in the background who are about as tuneful as the 'rag and bone' man when he comes down our alleyway.

[kwackers]

but that's all but impossible when they are being drowned out by the boorish behaviour of protesters in the background who are about as tuneful as the 'rag and bone' man when he comes down our alleyway.

I like him, he amuses and entertains.
I even dug him out on YouTube to see him in action.

[broadway]

It might be interesting to do a what if and suppose that the GFA requirements are left to the period when the trade talks are being discussed. We are in a transitional period where nothing changes. we have left but follow EU rules so the borderlessness is intact. We can extend this period by mutual consent. The EU has to struggle with squaring its single market with the GFA. It cant demand the UK stays in the status quo as we have left the EU, we are a third country? How would it proceeed? Bullishly assert the primacy of the single market? Then Ireland has been abandoned? I suspect the GFA would have to be reopened. Its not as if all the violence has ended in the the North? The orignal grouse that ignited it all has gone viz that the Unionists tried to exclude the Siin Fein supporters from power in the North. Very messy, but some times life is like that, thats the reality that the EU wants to avoid at the UKs cost

Does Ireland not have a say?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -by-issues

Apparently not.

It has already been clearly stated that the Government feels Northern Ireland is not capable of dealing with Brexit and that they will be enforcing central Government

I was talking about the Republic, however Mercalia seems to think they should not have a say either.

[Psamathe]

Has Piffle got to the point where we just can't trust anything he says (or was that point passed some time ago) e.g. despite continuous claims from PM about the progress he's making with EU towards a deal, reported today

Brussels baffled by Boris Johnson's Brexit progress claims

PM says deal outline is nearly ready but EU says no backstop alternatives have been tabled

Brussels has responded with bafflement at Boris Johnson’s claims of progress in the Brexit talks, with EU officials warning that discussions are going nowhere.

The prime minister and his cabinet have insisted that the outlines of a deal are in the making and that attempts by MPs to rule out a no-deal exit will kill that positive momentum.

But officials said that more than two weeks after Johnson’s meeting with the German chancellor Angela Merkel, no alternatives to the backstop had been tabled and that there had instead been a renewed clash over Brussels’ need for an immediately legally operable solution for Ireland.

And what does it say about our political system when much of what the PM says is completely untrue?

Ian

[kwackers]

And what does it say about our political system when much of what the PM says is completely untrue?

Ian

It says we're getting ready for our merger with America.