New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
zenitb
Posts: 288
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby zenitb » 6 Sep 2019, 8:11pm

Go this ad chucked at me

However for once its relevant with new 11 speed and 12 speed Shimano and SRAM compatible bar end and thumb shifters.

https://www.microshift.com/en/do-your-own-thing/

Anyone else seen these??? (scroll down for the glossy pics)

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 6 Sep 2019, 9:24pm

catalogue here

https://www.microshift.com/wp-content/uploads/Catalog/microSHIFT_catalog_2019.pdf

new products for 2019 here

https://www.microshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/microSHIFT-MY19-New-Products.pdf

SJS have 11s shifters but not 12s shifters.

One would assume (wrongly as it turns out) that bar end shifters are compatible with shimano 'road' stuff but with thumbshifters that isn't such a safe assumption.

Annoyingly Microshift don't seem to make it clear if their 10, 11, 12s stuff is shimano 'road' or shimano 'MTB' compatible, until you read the small print in their catalogue;[edit] it seems the shifters for 10s and 11s are either shimano MTB compatible, or 'road' compatible depending on the model.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 7 Sep 2019, 10:00pm, edited 3 times in total.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NetworkMan
Posts: 715
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:13am
Location: South Devon

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby NetworkMan » 6 Sep 2019, 9:38pm

Brucey wrote:catalogue here

https://www.microshift.com/wp-content/uploads/Catalog/microSHIFT_catalog_2019.pdf

SJS have 11s shifters but not 12s shifters.

One assumes that bar end shifters are compatible with shimano 'road' stuff but with thumbshifters that isn't such a safe assumption.

Annoyingly Microshift don't seem to make it clear if their 10, 11, 12s stuff is shimano 'road' or shimano 'MTB' compatible.

cheers

Don't they list all the kit at the start of each 'road' and 'mountain' section in the catalogue?

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 6 Sep 2019, 9:44pm

I see what you mean, it depends on the model, and it is clearer than I thought in their catalogue.

I'll make a list I think.

Road bar end shifters (all BS prefix)

BS-C11 (ultegra and DA 11s)
BS-A11 (105 11s)
BS-A10B, BS-T10B (4700 10s)
BS-A10, BS-T10 (4600 10s)
BS-A09, BS-T09 (sora 9s)
BS-A08, BS-T08 (shimano 8s)

BS-C11 and BS-A11 shifters ought to have the same cable pull. In some (not all) cases the same models with SL instead of BS prefix are available, in thumbshifter form. All LH shifters in this series appear to be microratchet type and are capable of handling a triple mech as well as a double. If a model has an S suffix option (eg BS-C11S) then it is fitted with shorter shift levers.

Note also there are so called 'transferable' RH shifters in some models, eg SL-T10B and BS-T10B shifters have RH shifters that are switchable between friction and index. Hurrah!

In mountain shifters there are rapidfire type pods as well as these bar end shifters and thumbshifters

BS-M12-R, SL-M12-R (RH shifter for shimano 12s MTB, with Friction mode as well as Index mode).
BS-SR-M12, SL-SR-M12 (for SRAM Eagle 12s, Friction/Index type)
BS-M11, SL-M11 (for shimano 11s MTB RDs)
BS-SR-M11-R, SL-SR-M11-R (for SRAM MTB F/I type)
BS-M10, SL-M10 (for shimano 10s MTB RDs)
in 9s and 8s the same shifters work for road and MTB.
There is also BS-N08 and SL-N08 which are for Nexus/Alfine 8s IGH.

FWIW Sun Race R90 9s bar end shifters look almost identical to BS-A09 Microshift type.

these https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/microshift-11-spd-bar-end-shifters/
appear to be model BS-A11.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 7 Sep 2019, 10:13pm, edited 4 times in total.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

zenitb
Posts: 288
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

I like the catalogue ...

Postby zenitb » 6 Sep 2019, 10:11pm

nice spot...looks like there are three sets of shifters (bar-end, thumbshifter and brifter) dedicated to Shimano 11 speed MTB mechs and cassettes....see pics..

In theory at least the increased cable pull per gear should make these less likely to go out of adjustment than, say, the old Shimano 9 speed indexing.

I wonder if the 11 speed thumbshifter would be useful on my flat bar tandem..maybe :-)
Image Attachments
Screenshot_2019-09-06-22-00-31.png
Screenshot_2019-09-06-22-04-40.png

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 6 Sep 2019, 10:32pm

cable pulls for the various different shifters are listed as

Shimano 9
2.5mm

Shimano 10 (4600, 5600, 5700, 6600 or 6700)
2.3mm

Shimano 10 (Dynasys/MTB)
3.4mm

Shimano 10 (4700)
2.8mm

Shimano 11
2.7mm

Shimano 11 (Dynasys/MTB)
3.6mm

Thus the most robust (cable-tolerant) systems ought to be 10 and 11s MTB types.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NetworkMan
Posts: 715
Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:13am
Location: South Devon

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby NetworkMan » 7 Sep 2019, 9:32am

Do you remember that Bob Newhart sketch where Walter Raleigh is describing the use of tobacco over the telephone and the guy on the other end clearly can't believe a word of it? Seeing those tiny cable pulls reminds me of reading about indexed shifting in Richards Bicycle Book some 30 years ago and thinking that it can't possibly work reliably for any length of time. The wonder is that it does. The change in design at around 10 speed does seem to indicate that some sort of limit has been reached however.

zenitb
Posts: 288
Joined: 7 Aug 2018, 9:59pm
Contact:

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby zenitb » 7 Sep 2019, 3:17pm

NetworkMan wrote:Do you remember that Bob Newhart sketch where Walter Raleigh is describing the use of tobacco over the telephone and the guy on the other end clearly can't believe a word of it? Seeing those tiny cable pulls reminds me of reading about indexed shifting in Richards Bicycle Book some 30 years ago and thinking that it can't possibly work reliably for any length of time. The wonder is that it does. The change in design at around 10 speed does seem to indicate that some sort of limit has been reached however.

Shimano helped us by keeping the deraiiler displacement ratio across 6-7-8-9 and even 10 speed road mechs the same. However by 9 speed my mtbs had "fussy" gear adjustment compared to my original 6 speed SIS systems. My new SRAM 11speed mtb, with its longer and more positive cable pull, is far easier to keep in adjustment.

Changing the Microshift system to friction mode is harder than the simple Shimano switch (e.g. on my 7 speed Deore thumbshifters or my 7 and 8 speed Ultegra bar end shifters). For Microshift it looks like you have to undo the central bolt with an allen key THEN switch to friction, then correctly tighten the bolt again. That said, with the longer cable pull per gear you would hope friction mode is less necessary ??? :-)

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 7 Sep 2019, 10:15pm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

pwa
Posts: 10563
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby pwa » 8 Sep 2019, 8:33am

Are Shimano not making bar end levers for 11 speed road? if they are, why would anyone look for another brand? The bar end levers have generally been one of Shimaono's better products.

NickJP
Posts: 154
Joined: 24 Sep 2018, 7:11pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby NickJP » 8 Sep 2019, 8:55am

pwa wrote:Are Shimano not making bar end levers for 11 speed road? if they are, why would anyone look for another brand? The bar end levers have generally been one of Shimaono's better products.
I have a set of the Shimano 11s barend shifters on our tandem. Part number Dura-Ace SL-BSR1. I have them paired with the Ultegra 8000-GS RD and an older model Ultegra FD, changing 54/44/30 chainrings and the HG800 11-34 cassette.

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 8 Sep 2019, 10:11am

pwa wrote:Are Shimano not making bar end levers for 11 speed road? if they are, why would anyone look for another brand? The bar end levers have generally been one of Shimaono's better products.


some (quite a few) folk have had failures in shimano BE shifters. I've not got to the bottom of exactly why but it seems to me that some at least, possibly many, have been caused by the lever being misassembled, e.g. with the base washer in the wrong position (it looks like it ought to fit any one of four different ways and in fact it only goes on one way). This loads the base washer oddly and it soon fails.

I've not personally had any problem with them, they seem OK to me. What does annoy me is that they don't always have a friction mode any more. If you choose carefully you can get a friction mode up to 9s but not in 10s or 11s. Also shimano don't make thumbshifters for road groupsets (hence other manufacturers make brackets for shimano shifters) and of course shimano don't want you to operate any of their MTB mechs using dropped handlebar controls, well in fact anything other than their pods.

So Microshift offer the following choices that simply are not otherwise available

- thumbshifters/BE shifters for road ( models for 10s / and tiagra 10s) with friction mode as well as index mode
- Ditto for MTB 10s/11s/12s
- ditto for SRAM MTB 11s/12s

Its worth noting that for touring, MTB 10s/11s rear shifting has quite a lot going for it; the mechs handle large sprockets by design, and cable pull per shift is over 3mm (eg for shimano MTB 11s it is ~3.4mm). This results in cable-generated shifting errors that are comparable with those that used to be found in shimano 6s indexing....

I don't think there is a big advantage in price by choosing 10/11/12s microshift shifters; they are priced comparably with other alternatives (where available). However in 8/9s their shifters do seem to be a fair bit less expensive. I'm grateful for any choice in the matter; whilst I own and use them on some bikes, I'm not a STI fanboy/addict by any means.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NickJP
Posts: 154
Joined: 24 Sep 2018, 7:11pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby NickJP » 8 Sep 2019, 10:30am

For flat bar road bikes, Shimano make Sora (9s) and Tiagra (10s) flat bar shifters.

Brucey
Posts: 36116
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Brucey » 8 Sep 2019, 10:46am

NickJP wrote:For flat bar road bikes, Shimano make Sora (9s) and Tiagra (10s) flat bar shifters.


not everyone likes rapidfire type pods; they are ugly lumps that don't have a friction mode, and whilst they are usually fairly reliable, cables that break inside the shifter can be extremely problematic.

They have other problems too, for example shimano seem to think their shifters are going to be using in total darkness or something; after a relatively short exposure to, er, actual daylight, the windows in their shifters soon look milky/crazed and no amount of fettling will fix this. The plastic covers on most pods are very easily broken too. In the long run the fate of rapidfire pods that don't get broken in another way is for one of the many tiny springs inside the thing to break, and/or the mechanism to gum up.

No shifter is perfect of course but nearly all these troubles are either impossible or highly unlikely to occur with thumbshifters or BE shifters, especially if they are mounted out of the way somewhere on dropped bars. You don't need a ruddy gear indicator if you have a lever that moves; you can feel which gear you are in, without diverting your gaze from the road. Sometimes less is more.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Daipink
Posts: 8
Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 12:01pm

Re: New Microshift bar-end and thumbshifters...11 and 12 speed

Postby Daipink » 9 Sep 2019, 1:17pm

Timely thread for me as I'm contemplating bar-end shifters on an audax bike I've been rebuilding. Had it set up with 10 speed record ergos, finally got bars taped up at weekend and right hand shifter jammed! Changed down but now won't change up.

My thought is to use Shimano 10 speed Dura Ace with a compatible 9 speed XT rear mech (already have this) and new Tektro brake levers for dual pivot brakes. Tired of fiddly ergos and STIs but fancy more modern brake lever shape (i.e. longer levers) which Tektro seem to have adopted. Any reason not to go for this or consider Microshift instead?