Spoke key?

[Brucey]

I have a set of three unusual keys, marked 13, 14 and 15 swg. Though less handy than a Park type I use them as my ultimate deterrent because they give a good grip and easy leverage.
They are in the shape of a flattened U, about 60mm in the base and 30mm in each arm. At the end of each arm is the nipple slot, in the shape of a slotted diamond. The axis of the slots is aligned, so that while one end is engaging a nipple, the other is round the spoke. This gives good leverage and a secure grip.
Has anyone such a spoke key? I cannot remember where I got them!
When wheel building the nipples are lubricated and do not need the ultimate deterrent, but these keys will shift any frozen nipple which it is possible to shift without breaking the spoke.

not quite as you describe but icetoolz used to make a set of three like this



tartybikes used to sell them. Dunno where you can get them now.

cheers

[Mike Sales]

not quite as you describe but icetoolz used to make a set of three like this


tartybikes used to sell them. Dunno where you can get them now.

cheers

Not at all like those, except in the business end, the slotted diamond.
They have two business ends, the axes of which are in one line.

[LittleGreyCat]

Thanks for all the responses.

Most of them seem to include "but not for wheel building" which is fine because I currently have no plans to build wheels.

I was looking for a general purpose emergency key to fit a range of nipple sizes for use in the touring/group ride toolkit.
Based on the assumption that if you get 3 bikes in a group there are likely to be different nipple sizes depending on the bike style.

I haven't yet found a definitive guide on what nipples are used for which wheels. but I am assuming if you get a group with a road racer, an MTB, a hybrid and a tourer (plus perhaps a vintage road bike) then they won't all be using the same spoke and nipple size.

[Brucey]

IME if you carry a red spokey and a yellow spokey that will cover about 95% of common wheels. They'll weigh stuff all, cost is reasonable, and you will be able to build wheels if you choose to. Anything outside these two sizes can be handled in an emergency using a small adjustable spanner.

cheers

[Tinpotflowers]

IME if you carry a red spokey and a yellow spokey that will cover about 95% of common wheels. They'll weigh stuff all, cost is reasonable, and you will be able to build wheels if you choose to. Anything outside these two sizes can be handled in an emergency using a small adjustable spanner.

cheers

I think you need a black one for the older Brompton wheels?0

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
One tool easy to carry, made by Cyclo.
Edited- less than 35 grams.

[Sweep]

IME if you carry a red spokey and a yellow spokey that will cover about 95% of common wheels. They'll weigh stuff all, cost is reasonable, and you will be able to build wheels if you choose to. Anything outside these two sizes can be handled in an emergency using a small adjustable spanner.

cheers

Are DT swiss nipples smaller than the norm the red spokey is for?

If so, is it an issue?

Apologies if I have misunderstood something in my web trawling.

[Brucey]

IME red spokey is an excellent fit on DT, Sapim 14/15G nipples.

cheers

[Brucey]

IME if you carry a red spokey and a yellow spokey that will cover about 95% of common wheels. They'll weigh stuff all, cost is reasonable, and you will be able to build wheels if you choose to. Anything outside these two sizes can be handled in an emergency using a small adjustable spanner.

I think you need a black one for the older Brompton wheels?0

in the other 5%; rear wheels only because they use 'converter nipples' and 13G spokes I think. If you have a bike with odd size nipples, you need to have the right size key of course. Unless you are going to use 13G spokes that are also 13G at the nipple end, it makes very good sense to 'rationalise' your bikes so that the same spoke key(s) fit all the wheels you own. In my case that means to fit a red spokey, mostly 14/15G DT and Sapim nipples.

cheers

[Mike Sales]

not quite as you describe but icetoolz used to make a set of three like this


tartybikes used to sell them. Dunno where you can get them now.

cheers

Not at all like those, except in the business end, the slotted diamond.
They have two business ends, the axes of which are in one line.

At last I got round to finding out how to place a picture.
I know this is a bit of a resurrection, but I wanted to try.

[Sweep]

IME red spokey is an excellent fit on DT, Sapim 14/15G nipples.

cheers

The DT Swiss nipples on this are different?

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-whee ... re-fh-t610

If you scroll down it has info on the spokes.

DT Champion.

One arrived the other day.

Front as well which not DT Swiss.

The red spokey is noticably looser on the rear than the front (and other wheels I had to hand).

My talent for screwing things up is impressive.

Don't I need a smaller key for those spokes?

[Brucey]

there's a tolerance for spoke key fit, and that tolerance is largest when you have a diamond shaped slot in the key and a full square (with good corners) on the nipple; this is how a spokey fits a DT or sapim nipple. BTW just because the spokes are a particular brand don't assume that the nipples are the same brand unless it is explicitly stated.

If you want to see what you can get away with, torque-wise, take some scrap wheels and play around with different spoke keys and nipples. Some nipples have pre-rounded corners and when you try and drive them with a square-slotted key, even if that key is as good a fit as possible, you can barely get enough torque on them to build the wheel. When these nipples are a bit tight, after some use, then they just round off as quick as lightning.

IME even if the fit seems slightly loose, a red spokey almost invariably has enough traction to shear a 14G spoke off if a DT/Sapim nipple seizes, all without damage to either the key or the nipple.

After you have built about a hundred wheels with a red spokey, it will be slightly worn. Get a new key then, and keep the old one because it will fit some odd-size nipples.

cheers

[Sweep]

Thanks brucey.

Have ordered a 3.2 anyway - from the pic it seems to have a diamond slot.

It's an Ice-Toolz

Have the idea that many/all Park ones have square slots? That's a bad idea surely? If so, why do they do it?

[Brucey]

square slots in keys are a lot cheaper to make and some wheelbuilders prefer them because they can be slightly quicker to get on and off the nipples, if you are used to that sort of key. If all you do is build wheels using new spokes and nipples you don't really need a high torque capacity. The diamond slot gives you

- a higher torque rating for any quality of fit
- a greater tolerance for a slightly slack fit.

Note that a really good fit between key and nipple may cause problems; if the nipple is slightly angled vs the spoke, you may have problems getting the key on and off the spoke, or avoiding binding between the bottom of the key and the spoke. The idea of the 'butterfly' shape to some spoke keys is that it avoids the clash between the spoke and the key, if the nipples are slightly kinked.

cheers

[Vorpal]

A companion had a circular tool to use as a spoke key; it seemed to be able to fit different spoke sizes.

Nearest I can find is https://www.cyclestore.co.uk/giant_o_type_spoke_key-ID_56851 which would conveniently take my order into free delivery.

Are these kind of tools "a good thing"?

Looks more versatile than buying several dedicated spoke keys.

I have a park multi-tool that has a simple spoke tool. They are good for roadside use, if that's what you want?