Extinction Rebellion

[al_yrpal]

I would like to know exactly what practical steps Extinction Rebellion want governments to do right now? Not just declaring climate emergencies, but what...

Restrict aircraft?
Ban fossil fuel heating?
Ban air conditioning?
Scrap car manufacture?
Restrict car use.
Stop producing oil and gas?
Shut down nuclear power plants?
Plant trees?
Ban ruminants, cattle and sheep?
Ban the internet, apparently a huge driver of greenhouse gases?
Ban Primark?

What?

And, how to deal with the massive economic disruption caused and unemployment?

Al?

[merseymouth]

Hi Al , From a Tree Hugger position that looks like a good starter! Adding eating all foods in a raw state, drinking recycled urine you might just solve the over population problem as well? It would push me to ending it all!
What might really push us to melt-down is if more of the ordnance dumped at sea after the two World Wars gives up their nasty content!!!
Throw in all of the cargo from ships sent to the bottom during those conflicts and we have a right witches brew down in Davy Jones's Locker. MM

[661-Pete]

What practical and practicable steps? I don't know - no more than anyone knows. Just getting everyone - the Government included, plus the governments of all other countries - to recognise, to be aware, that we are in a dire emergency. That would be a good start.

I don't know how to resolve that other national emergency, the one which has now occupied some 1,320-odd pages of debate on this forum. What I mean is, I know of a possible solution, but getting some others to swallow it, is the hard bit....

Climate Change is, unfortunately, trickier. Everyone needs to be involved. Even those who didn't glue themselves to the Home Office....

P.S. I haven't bought anything at Primark for some years now. Not because of my principles, but because most of their clothes don't fit me... So that's one down!

[kwackers]

And, how to deal with the massive economic disruption caused and unemployment?

Al?

You crack me up, seriously you do.

Unemployment? According to you that's a price worth paying just to leave the EU so how can it not be a price worth paying if the future of our very existence is at stake?
Economic disruption? Again a price worth paying to leave the EU but not for our survival?

Every passing year increases both the cost of both doing something and of doing nothing exponentially and the cost of doing nothing is rising much faster.
Tipping points are being reached (or have already been reached) and once reached even if we could reduce CO2 to pre-industrial levels we still wouldn't be able to stop it going pear shaped.
I get the distinct impression that a fair number of climate scientists think it's already too late.

Of course me, you and most of the folk on here can rest easy knowing that we won't really have to pay the price for our idiocy, we can leave it to our children whilst we cash out our pensions and ride round in our gas guzzlers with our smug faces.

We could have sorted it out decades ago for far less cost and with much less disruption, but no. Guys like you bleated about the cost back then too.
It's just a shame you wont get to pay the real cost that climate change is going to cost imo.

[roubaixtuesday]

I would like to know exactly what practical steps Extinction Rebellion want governments to do right now? Not just declaring climate emergencies, but what...

Restrict aircraft?
Ban fossil fuel heating?
Ban air conditioning?
Scrap car manufacture?
Restrict car use.
Stop producing oil and gas?
Shut down nuclear power plants?
Plant trees?
Ban ruminants, cattle and sheep?
Ban the internet, apparently a huge driver of greenhouse gases?
Ban Primark?

What?

And, how to deal with the massive economic disruption caused and unemployment?

Al?

Al, XR does not espouse any policy position, but advocates for a citizen's assembly as a democratic means of deciding the best path.

https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

What do you think we should do about climate change?

[roubaixtuesday]

I get the distinct impression that a fair number of climate scientists think it's already too late.

There is no such thing as "too late". Impacts of climate change rapidly escalate with temperature rise, so even if it's too late to a stop 2 degree rise, it's much *more* important to stop further rises beyond that.

[landsurfer]

How did the er protestors get there ?
What is there carbon footprint for the trip ?
How much damage has their carbon footprint caused ?
What is their income demographic ?
How many diesel ex-fire engines do they need to pollute children's air space ?

It goes on and on ...

It's not the target thats the problem .. it's the way to it..
"To protest against the use of carbon I will treble my carbon footprint, to save the planet. "
Quadruple, Sextuple .... et al ...
"Let us bow down to the words of children with mental health issues, for they are the prophets of the future."

Today i travelled to a meeting in East Ham in Essex on my 400cc motorbike ...
From Sheffield.
In the morning I will ride to Dartford for a second meeting ...
On my motorbike.
These journeys would have been made in my 2.3ltr diesel pickup truck ...
I have massively reduced my carbon footprint for these essential journeys.

All the while er protestors massively increase their carbon footprints .. ???

"Hans, are we the baddies ?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

[roubaixtuesday]

How did the er protestors get there ?
What is there carbon footprint for the trip ?
How much damage has their carbon footprint caused ?
What is their income demographic ?
How many diesel ex-fire engines do they need to pollute children's air space ?

It goes on and on ...

It's not the target thats the problem .. it's the way to it..
"To protest against the use of carbon I will treble my carbon footprint, to save the planet. "
Quadruple, Sextuple .... et al ...
"Let us bow down to the words of children with mental health issues, for they are the prophets of the future."

Today i travelled to a meeting in East Ham in Essex on my 400cc motorbike ...
From Sheffield.
In the morning I will ride to Dartford for a second meeting ...
On my motorbike.
These journeys would have been made in my 2.3ltr diesel pickup truck ...
I have massively reduced my carbon footprint for these essential journeys.

All the while er protestors massively increase their carbon footprints

"Hans, are we the baddies ?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

Bizarre argument. They're in tents with solar panels. I'm not sure how this is "massively" increasing their carbon footprint, quite the opposite.

[landsurfer]

[

Bizarre argument. They're in tents with solar panels. I'm not sure how this is "massively" increasing their carbon footprint, quite the opposite.

In polyester tents they will probably leave there ... single use plastics ... arrived by train, mummies car, diesel buses ... how many cycled there ?
It's a reality check .... how many tons of carbon have been released by their actions !!
Have you any idea of the carbon footprint of solar panels ..!!!
"I'll save the planet from carbon by releasing tons more" ??? Really...!!
er need to protest ... in London .. WALK THERE, CYCLE THERE.
Remember the Jarrow marchers ...
Turning up with your designer polyester tent and shutting down other peoples lives needs commitment ... not taking the easy option !

"I'm a climate activist / protestor, I only travel by vehicles burning red diesel " .... again ..Really... !!

IMAGINE ... how much the climate would have been protected if they had just stayed at home !

There .. you've made me do a 9 exclamation mark rant .... silly person ...

[661-Pete]

How did the er protestors get there ?
What is there carbon footprint for the trip ?

You may or may not be aware of it, but there are a number of train services leading into London. Many of them powered by electricity. Yes it's not a perfect solution (how is some of that electricity generated?), but it's a damn sight better than taking the car...

If you can prove that any of the XR protesters actually drove into London in their cars, tell us about it.

Mrs P and I are planning to be in London on Saturday week - not actually for XR but for the next People's Vote march. Assuming my bad back lets me! We may look in on the XR people whilst we're there - shout some encouragement! And we'll definitely take the train. Drive into London? Don't make me laugh! I don't even drive into Brighton if I can help it, these days - and Brighton's a lot nearer to us than London.

[Cugel]

Yes indeed. Human nature is a variable item, with a large range of effects. Modern technology amplifies these various effects by a huge factor.

"Human nature" is often quoted as something base.

But the reality is that there are two things which really seem to distinguish human from other animal nature.

One is consciousness, which brings the ability to think through the consequences of our actions.

The other is altruism.

The challenge is to bring these to bear in a modern world where the banality of our actions - "fill up the car" - are so far disconnected from their profound consequences - "cataclysmic environmental devastation".

On XR - I went to one of their meetings locally. Good people.

Yesbutno but...

Consciousness is the bane of humans. It allows us to imagine all sorts of mad things as well as the nice ones. Also, it erects an enormous barrier of obscure and often crazy thinks between us and reality.

As to altruism. ..... The road to hell is paved by altruists laying down lots of good intentions ... often on the path not just to hell but the one that has man-eating machines along the verges.

And despite both these queer human modes, we remain animals .... often vicious and extremely dangerous animals. Just ask any of the other sort of animals.

Cugel, just another angelic devil.

[landsurfer]

If you can prove that any of the XR protesters actually drove into London in their cars, tell us about it.

Prove they didn't, by car, by train ... how many flew in ...
I don't support their actions so i don't have to prove anything.
Let each one of them show how they have arrived at that legal and totally needed protest without increasing their carbon footprint.

It should be a badge of honour!

[661-Pete]

In polyester tents they will probably leave there ... single use plastics ...

Once again, can you prove that? Otherwise, it's libel.

how many cycled there ?

Probably quite a large number. I can't give you figures, but it's your question: you find out the answer!

We can't do that, because an 80-mile round trip by bike is beyond our capability now, I'm afraid - but when I was younger I used to quite frequently cycle into London and back. I'm not saying everyone could do it. Of course, if traffic levels in our big cities were to go down, there'd be more people cycling...

[landsurfer]

Couple of years ago i was involved with movement at a fracking site to the west of Manchester.
Many of the protestors had come from far away .. professional protestors, on benefits some of them but not many.
I spoke to a couple, living in a tent made from tarpaulins.
They had walked from Wiltshire !!
Took them 2 weeks ...
2 weeks walking to protest ....
Respect to them and their cause..

[Cugel]

If you can prove that any of the XR protesters actually drove into London in their cars, tell us about it.

Prove they didn't, by car, by train ... how many flew in ...
I don't support their actions so i don't have to prove anything.
Let each one of them show how they have arrived at that legal and totally needed protest without increasing their carbon footprint.

It should be a badge of honour!

Yes but .....

Well, this to the side as you are determined to do some whatabouts.

As I recall, you have children, as do I. How do you see their future in. say, 30 years time?

I asked first!

Cugel