** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Oct 2019, 2:50pm

Debs wrote:Another massive march demanding a final say on Brexit is set to take place tomorrow at the same time as MPs meet for the parliamentary piffle vote session.

The presence of the marchers and the show of strength will be a huge reflection of project reality.

Wish i could be with them but 200+ mile away is a bit far for me. Anyone here going? :D
We shall be there, hopefully. We expect the trains to be very crowded. Weather looks promising, for a change - this does make a difference.

This means we may miss the actual Brex**it vote in parliament: others on the march will no doubt be watching the whole thing on their phones, but we shan't. Oh well - we'll learn soon enough. I wish I could be as confident as Debs - the only outcome that works for me is revoke art.50 and start over....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Vorpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 18 Oct 2019, 3:11pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: at the moment under EU rules anyone can come into any EU country as long as they say they are looking for work, on that basis you can't be told to leave.
Do the remainers want that to continue ?
The UK is bursting at the seams, who is going to look after you in your old age?
Even foreigners who have settled in this country do you not want more people in the country.

I see the Romanian president wants all his people to come home, the media even interviewed Romanians saying they are going home.
If you were Romanian which country would you like to work in/live in, It's not rocket science.

I don't know where you get the idea that EU citizens cannot be told to leave. The freedom of movement is based upon the right to work. Someone who is not working, studying, or self-employed can be asked, after 90 days to leave the country, apply for a residence permit and/or demonstrate that they have sufficient personal funds to continue staying without recourse to public benefits. Each country handles it slightly differently.

In France for example, you have to be employed, self-employed, a student, a family member of an EU citizen living in France, or unemployed with proof of financial means (if you are under 65, you must have EUR 537 per month if you are single with no children, and EUR 805 if you are a couple with no children; rates increase for each additional number of children. Rates for those over 65 are EUR 805 if you live alone and EUR 1,247 if you are a couple.

In Germany, you have to apply for a 'right of residence' certificate after 90 days. In order to obtain such a certificate, you have to show one or more of the following:
-An employment contract/offer of a job
-Registration on trade register/membership of a professional body
-Proof of receipt of a pension, if you’re retired
-Proof of health insurance
-Proof of monthly earnings, if you’re self-employed

The UK could have done something similar, but never has.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 18 Oct 2019, 3:18pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
PDQ Mobile wrote:It's a cop out Mick.
You are really contradicting yourself.
We need passports already.
The UK is not in the Schengen area.

You are happy with the "rest of the World having free movment it just should be restricted a bit"

Restricted by whom? And on whose say so?
Resticted to which groups?

To rich speculators perhaps?
Or rich Arabs?
Or military people?
Or just " professional" people.
But nobody poor or unwashed?

I say to you the "professionals" are just as likely, maybe more likely, to be criminals and shysters.


at the moment under EU rules anyone can come into any EU country as long as they say they are looking for work, on that basis you can't be told to leave.
.....

Actually it's quite a bit more restricted than that.

Ian

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 18 Oct 2019, 3:26pm

Vorpal wrote:I don't know where you get the idea that EU citizens cannot be told to leave. The freedom of movement is based upon the right to work. Someone who is not working, studying, or self-employed can be asked, after 90 days to leave the country, apply for a residence permit and/or demonstrate that they have sufficient personal funds to continue staying without recourse to public benefits. Each country handles it slightly differently.

Careful!

NA doesn't like folk telling him (most) leavers don't have a clue about how it all works. He thinks it's some sort of leftie plot.
Much better for them to believe all the nonsense they've clung to in order to justify their beliefs.

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horizon
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby horizon » 18 Oct 2019, 3:31pm

Paulatic wrote:Raab and others have said
"cracking deal” for Northern Ireland because it will keep “frictionless access to the single market”

So supporters of brexit why can’t the rest of us have that?


Good move on Radio 4 this lunchtime:

Interviewer: so NI will be worse off under this deal?
Rees-Mogg: no, not at all.
Interviewer: so will NI be better off?
Rees-Mogg: (pauses to find a way out if this one) No, not at all. Just differently off! :lol: :lol:
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 18 Oct 2019, 3:36pm

I see that the Government if refusing to release crucial information to allow MPs to amke an informed decision.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-latest-chancellor-sajid-javid-boris-johnson-economy-damage-a9161391.html wrote:Brexit: Chancellor refuses to publish analysis of economic damage from Boris Johnson's deal before MPs vote
The chancellor is refusing to publish an analysis of the likely economic damage from the new Brexit deal ahead of Saturday’s crunch vote, amid suspicions it would reveal a £130bn hit.

Senior MPs have condemned as “unacceptable” a failure to publish the information, when the Commons is being asked to make its most momentous decision in decades.

So Piffle and his cronies think it best MPs make an un-informed decision by withholding available and relevant and crucial information from them. To me it would seem impossible to make a sensible decision if you don't have the facts available.

Maybe it's just another illustration about how daft our politics in the UK has become (and Leave supporters want to give more power to these people in Westminster!).

Ian

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 18 Oct 2019, 4:22pm

Hi all, So folk who wish to remain tethered to the E.U. keep asking for FACTS?
Funny that having such reliance on provable information yet they still demand to see anomalous theoretical prognostications from the Chancellor!
Such projections are often as factual as the utter-rings of Nostradamus? Maybe they can feel the facts in their water??? :roll:
With regards to all of us who call for an orderly control on immigration being labelled xenophobes, very unreasonably presumptuous!
My analogy of the current never ending flow of impatient incomers is those rude yobs who insist on pushing their way through folk who wait to be served in a busy pub, ill-mannered folk!
Maybe if they acted in an orderly fashion going through the regular channels they might create less resentment for others to air?
Not xenophobic, just trying to act in a civilised fashion. IGICB MM

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2019, 4:37pm

Vorpal wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: at the moment under EU rules anyone can come into any EU country as long as they say they are looking for work, on that basis you can't be told to leave.
Do the remainers want that to continue ?
The UK is bursting at the seams, who is going to look after you in your old age?
Even foreigners who have settled in this country do you not want more people in the country.

I see the Romanian president wants all his people to come home, the media even interviewed Romanians saying they are going home.
If you were Romanian which country would you like to work in/live in, It's not rocket science.

I don't know where you get the idea that EU citizens cannot be told to leave......

He probably gets it from 'gut' feeling,it seems to work for him for anything else to do with the EU.
NA doesn't let facts get in the way of his 'gut' :?
Did someone say "you couldn't make it up"?
NA does frequently where the EU is concerned :roll:
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2019, 4:42pm

horizon wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Raab and others have said
"cracking deal” for Northern Ireland because it will keep “frictionless access to the single market”

So supporters of brexit why can’t the rest of us have that?


Good move on Radio 4 this lunchtime:

Interviewer: so NI will be worse off under this deal?
Rees-Mogg: no, not at all.
Interviewer: so will NI be better off?
Rees-Mogg: (pauses to find a way out if this one) No, not at all. Just differently off! :lol: :lol:

Great innit!
I've been "differently off" during my time,but one suspects ow'd Jacob hasn't roughed it :wink:
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2019, 4:44pm

Psamathe wrote:I see that the Government if refusing to release crucial information to allow MPs to amke an informed decision.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-latest-chancellor-sajid-javid-boris-johnson-economy-damage-a9161391.html wrote:Brexit: Chancellor refuses to publish analysis of economic damage from Boris Johnson's deal before MPs vote
The chancellor is refusing to publish an analysis of the likely economic damage from the new Brexit deal ahead of Saturday’s crunch vote, amid suspicions it would reveal a £130bn hit.

Senior MPs have condemned as “unacceptable” a failure to publish the information, when the Commons is being asked to make its most momentous decision in decades.

So Piffle and his cronies think it best MPs make an un-informed decision by withholding available and relevant and crucial information from them. To me it would seem impossible to make a sensible decision if you don't have the facts available.

Maybe it's just another illustration about how daft our politics in the UK has become (and Leave supporters want to give more power to these people in Westminster!).

Ian

Should we be surprised?
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Oct 2019, 4:49pm

merseymouth wrote:With regards to all of us who call for an orderly control on immigration being labelled xenophobes, very unreasonably presumptuous!


It would be, had anyone done that.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2019, 4:52pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, So folk who wish to remain tethered to the E.U. keep asking for FACTS?
Funny that having such reliance on provable information yet they still demand to see anomalous theoretical prognostications from the Chancellor!
Such projections are often as factual as the utter-rings of Nostradamus? Maybe they can feel the facts in their water??? :roll:
With regards to all of us who call for an orderly control on immigration being labelled xenophobes, very unreasonably presumptuous!
My analogy of the current never ending flow of impatient incomers is those rude yobs who insist on pushing their way through folk who wait to be served in a busy pub, ill-mannered folk!
Maybe if they acted in an orderly fashion going through the regular channels they might create less resentment for others to air?
Not xenophobic, just trying to act in a civilised fashion. IGICB MM

The facts people,myself included,asked for aren't as unreasonable as you try to make out.
It's quite simple really,tell us remainers the plus factors in the form of facts,for leaving the EU.
There must be lots as Brexit supporters are so keen to leave,if it's going to be that good don't you feel like sharing it and putting our minds at rest then we too can join in your euphoria about leaving?
Or could it be that there aren't any facts or plus factors?
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Oct 2019, 4:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2019, 4:52pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
merseymouth wrote:With regards to all of us who call for an orderly control on immigration being labelled xenophobes, very unreasonably presumptuous!


It would be, had anyone done that.

Quite!
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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 18 Oct 2019, 5:09pm

Psamathe wrote:#So Piffle and his cronies think it best MPs make an un-informed decision by withholding available and relevant and crucial information from them. To me it would seem impossible to make a sensible decision if you don't have the facts available.

The most sensible decision then would be to extend and prohibit re-presentation of the vote until after the crucial information is published with enough time to review it. I think I read that Letwin has proposed an amendment to do that.

Maybe it's just another illustration about how daft our politics in the UK has become (and Leave supporters want to give more power to these people in Westminster!).

Westminster? Moscow, more like! Remember: Leave means Ljubov! (Любовь)

Although I don't agree with everything he says, I was impressed by Macron's press conference, taking well over 30 minutes of searching questions and responding with long, thoughtful replies. Oh if only the UK had a head of government that did that instead of points-scoring and piffle-waffle.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 18 Oct 2019, 5:12pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, So folk who wish to remain tethered to the E.U. keep asking for FACTS?
Funny that having such reliance on provable information yet they still demand to see anomalous theoretical prognostications from the Chancellor!
Such projections are often as factual as the utter-rings of Nostradamus? Maybe they can feel the facts in their water??? :roll:
..... IGICB MM

The projections are not from the Chancellor but from economic models. They will undoubtedly be "wrong" the issues are on the error margins which are part of the estimates. Just like the weather forecast for this afternoon is "as factual as the utter-rings of Nostradamus" but it gives us e.g. %age chance of rain and we don't ignore it but use it as part of the information in making decisions about e.g. going out for a ride.

As the estimates are done on a non-political basis using researched economic models it is useful it helping the decision makers make decisions.

So seeking information and fact is a sensible when making such decisions. When you go see your Dr. most of his decision making processes are based on "estimates" rather than fact yet we still go and see Dr. and often listen to their advice and take their prescriptions.

Ian