** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Oct 2019, 9:51am

I think that our political classes are something of a laughing stock, but I do think that the British are widely liked and respected and that's a distinction that others can readily make.

I hope...

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Sweep
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Sweep » 20 Oct 2019, 9:56am

An interesting take on the roots of brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... een-brexit
Sweep

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2019, 9:58am

kwackers wrote:I see BoJo sent the letter but didn't sign it.

Now I must admit I'm childish enough to probably do the same thing but then I wouldn't make a great PM - I'm much more dictator material.

:)
My day was brightened -again.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2019, 10:20am

Sweep wrote:An interesting take on the roots of brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... een-brexit


While there is some merit in the idea that Beeching formed the roots of Brexit by isolating rural and outlying communities, it would be folly to attribute too much of the blame there.IMV.

Certainly had Beeching gone instead for an electrification of the whole network, the UK would be more competitive today.
Greener too.
Copper was relatively cheap then, and we had an industry ready and easily capable of producing the other required infrastructure.
And strangely we went for nuclear power and diesel trains.!

...
In my view the main roots of Brexit lie in the 2008 financial crash.
The consequent erosion of wage levels and a Tory Govt. intent on maintaining their relative wealth (when all were affected) by imposing austerity on the poorer sections of society and then successfully blaming that on the EU through its rabid press.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2019, 10:30am

Just out of curiosity, I thought I'd take a peek at the Daily Fail's (website - with Adblock enabled of course!) coverage of yesterdays events, in particular the People's Vote March. After all, I was there and able to witness it at first-hand.

Column after column on the alleged 'abuse' suffered by Creep-Smog (with mini Creep-somethingelse - he's only 12 for heavn's sake but dressed like a toff) .... plus Deadsom with more of the same. OK I didn't actually witness those events - with a million others on the march I can't be everywhere at once!

Why did Creep-Smog bring that kid along as a mascot? It's not a football match! The kid isn't an MP. Perhaps he alerted the Press before doing their walkabout?

Anyway - So we 'scum' were putting these people in fear of their lives, so it says? I think a few shouts of "Shame!" hardly counts as a death threat does it? All around us, as we marched along, it was entirely peaceful and friendly. OK there was plenty of shouting: "What do we want? People's Vote! When do we want it? Now!" etc. We certainly joined in, robustly. You always get that at a peaceful demo, don't you? And there was some music, though what with the crowds we couldn't get close to most of the bands. All in all, a thoroughly enjoyable and uplifting day for us. I even managed to forget that my health isn't of the best at present - at any rate I completed the march - and we then walked back to Victoria - without problems!

None of this, of course, gets even a mention in the good old Daily Heil.

Some say that Parliament needs 'fixing' in some way. I reckon "democracy" needs a good old shake-up. Followed by the "Fourth Estate".
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 20 Oct 2019, 10:32am

Hello Bonyfishblues, Sorry that the term "Begging Bowl" offends, but it does encapsulate the case non the less!
If on looks at the table of the actual contributors to the E.U. Pot it will be quite clear that a very small number of constituent nations actually contribute to the kitty! Greece is often used as an example of the mess, but one should not keep making them take the blame. Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland et al, they all make the situation quite toxic, not sustainable in even the medium term!
Yes, we do have to establish good relationships with other nations, but surely that should not be dependent on picking up the tab for all the ills that they might be going through?
This country has always tried to make overseas aid work for the good, not just to buy arms & Mercs for bad leaders, first they must do the basic for their people!
I took no part in Colonialism or Imperialism, but have always tried to be part of a good world for all, but that shouldn't mean that I have to put all of them before my own responsibilities should I?
Expanding the E.U. may bring kudos for Empire Builders, but it may create far more long lasting issues, big isn't always beautiful. TTFN MM

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2019, 10:37am

PDQ Mobile wrote:While there is some merit in the idea that Beeching formed the roots of Brexit by isolating rural and outlying communities, it would be folly to attribute too much of the blame there.IMV.
East Grinstead in Sussex (which happened to be Beeching's home town, oddly enough) was cruelly afflicted by the Beeching Axe. Pre-Beeching, there were four railway lines leading into the town. Now there is just one (towards London - of course!).

Yet East Grinstead is part of the Mid Sussex constituency - which voted Remain in 2016.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 20 Oct 2019, 10:39am

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:.......Still there is one thing Cameron has got right (at last)
Ian

I disagree with Cameron on this(never agreed with him on anything else so why start now :wink: ).
BoJo is the fully grown greasy pig who's had his nose in the trough since he was born like his father before him,and so is Cameron FTM.
Greasy fat pigs the lot of them.



PS,thinks...... ......apologies to the porcine element of creation as they're far more intelligent and with cleaner morals.....

I don't mind Stanley, and t'other two are fully paid up members of the human race. Rachel was hilarious on hignfy on Friday.

IMO she was just there to collect.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 20 Oct 2019, 10:43am

Oldjohnw wrote:It seems to me that Parliament is actually doing its job which is to apply scrutiny to bills and hold the executive to account. Even the smallest bit of legislation normally gets line by line scrutiny in committee. But with Brexit the government keeps things secret until the day before or even the day of the vote so as to steamroller it through without scrutiny. They've done this from the start.

Democracy would have recognised that the 'losers' were a large minority and had to be considered and May would right at the start tried to gain consensus. Instead she tried at the very beginning to sideline Parliament. Time and again the courts have had to be involved for parliament to have any discussion. And the government is, it appears, still at it.

Absolutely spot on!
Rule No 1 don't trust a Tory.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 20 Oct 2019, 10:46am

Oldjohnw wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hi Folk :) , So if the group of Balkan countries get the right to join the E.U. that will make that august body a better club to belong to?
With more begging bowl states surely the problems posed to the nett contribution countries will be that much greater, which with so few members paying the true cost of membership will become even more a toxic pool!
Add the problems posed by that other country which would like to be a member, Turkey, then the "Balkan's Tinderbox" will be revisited.
Ignore the lessons of history at one's peril! MM


Turkey has as much chance of joining as does Iran. And assisting poorer neighbours is called being part of the human race. Ignore that lesson from history at your peril!

Wot 'e sed

MM
You completely miss the point of the EU,but then wonder if you ever saw one in the first place! :?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Oct 2019, 10:47am

merseymouth wrote:Hello Bonyfishblues, Sorry that the term "Begging Bowl" offends, but it does encapsulate the case non the less!
If on looks at the table of the actual contributors to the E.U. Pot it will be quite clear that a very small number of constituent nations actually contribute to the kitty! Greece is often used as an example of the mess, but one should not keep making them take the blame. Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland et al, they all make the situation quite toxic, not sustainable in even the medium term!
Yes, we do have to establish good relationships with other nations, but surely that should not be dependent on picking up the tab for all the ills that they might be going through?
This country has always tried to make overseas aid work for the good, not just to buy arms & Mercs for bad leaders, first they must do the basic for their people!
I took no part in Colonialism or Imperialism, but have always tried to be part of a good world for all, but that shouldn't mean that I have to put all of them before my own responsibilities should I?
Expanding the E.U. may bring kudos for Empire Builders, but it may create far more long lasting issues, big isn't always beautiful. TTFN MM

It makes light of the true situation, and is also highly offensive and loaded. Your use of it, continuing justification, and much else about your post says much.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Oct 2019, 10:52am

On the various claims here about the purpose of the EU, it is worth going back to its foundation, often traced back to the Schumann declaration, to:

'make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible'


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuman_Declaration

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 20 Oct 2019, 10:52am

Bonefishblues wrote:I think that our political classes are something of a laughing stock, but I do think that the British are widely liked and respected and that's a distinction that others can readily make.

I hope...

Hope springs eternal..... ....myself I take more of a realistic approach :wink:
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Oct 2019, 10:53am

It is the (often deliberate) failure of the UK to understand this fundamental aim of the union that underpins the failure of Brexit.

merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 20 Oct 2019, 10:54am

Well then, what should we all do to please you? Any words these days are called offensive in some folks eyes!
How are we to satisfy your rebuke of anything that we say & do?
What is your take on how we make things work, that is without exploitation & in an environmentally sensible way?
You now have the role of the "Oracle at Delphi" to right all of the wrongs that you think I have created! MM