mercalia wrote:I posted this in another thread but it seems very apt after his latest little act of not signing the delay letter and sending another one to undermine it? ..... The next attempt by parliament wont make that mistake again, will dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s
I agree. Every time he rides roughshod over Parliament means they'll get less and less trusting and more and more wanting to quadruple check.
People tend to become less cooperative when treated the way Piffle is treating others. e.g. I believe his years of insults directed at other EU leaders (currently in post) is doing him no favours in achieving his current aims.
Oldjohnw wrote: Turkey has as much chance of joining as does Iran. And assisting poorer neighbours is called being part of the human race. Ignore that lesson from history at your peril!
The EU is still recovering from taking on the old Iron Curtain countries when Communism collapsed. We're still carrying Greece as well, come to that.
You need to remember that the EU isn't a club, as it's fashionable to say in the UK, but an economic arrangement formed to avoid internal conflict and promote the interests of all member countries.* Assisting poorer neighbours is only of interest when it is compatible with those aims. We took on the USSR's old buffer states not for their benefit but to keep them from going back to being Russia's pawns. It was in our interest then, but it gave our economy a right whack in the back of the knees.
BTW, Greece lied to get in just as the UK leavers lied to get out. Do you reckon they wouldn't veto Turkey getting in?
* actually, this was pretty well the original definition of a club: a bunch of people who banded together to have greater financial clout. However, these days it's more like a bunch of folk who like to ride bikes together.
Simplistic and slanted analysis of Greece is simplistic
Admittedly, but the true situation is more like a cat-herding competition.
merseymouth wrote:........The haves and the have-nots has been the poser since the stone age, so you tell me how we move forward? MM
By a more sharing caring community,obviously that throws up some problems,but that's mainly for the haves.The main problem for the haves is they/we live off the have-nots. The problem presently in the UK is the rich think the poor are undeserving and only need pacifying enough for them not to rebel,their main tool in that is to threaten the people in the middle(the so called middle classses)that they may become the poor and undeserving if they don't keep their noses to the grindstone as work slaves,making the rich richer in the bargain,they're the buffer between them(the rich)and those Les Miserables( the undeserving poor). As and exercise Google what percentage of the wealth in the world is owned by what percentage of people in the world,it may surprise you. By talking in terms of begging bowl countries you reinforce that systematic neoliberalist belief,that you are what you have and that poorer peoples are a burden on the rest of us nothing could be further from the truth,It's a falsehood spread by the rich for the rich which turns the world ion it's head,here's a spirit,it's the rich who are a burden on the poor. Just over half of the UK public have fell for that strategy even though as a result they'll be poorer for that belief,and the rich will seek to blame the EU for the system they themselves have set up. YVMV mine most certainly won't.
Last edited by reohn2 on 20 Oct 2019, 2:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Hi there, I understand fully about the change in language, but sometimes folk don't bear in mind the fact that people are always being offensive in their remarks, often then react without understanding the context & time-line involved. I'll tell one incident that may illustrate what can occur. My late father visited his old school, which was in an area that in the 1920's & 30's a nw residential area of Manchester. When we visited in the late 1990's it was in need of an uplift. Not uncommon. We went all around the school shown around by the head teacher, who was a very nice lady wearing a Sari, very late 20th century. In conversation with the head later he made a simple comment about how the demographics of the area had changed, simple as that. He said, unwisely for me but he was approaching 90 years of age, "You know, I haven't seen a white face in the school"?. But he was merely stating a fact, not critical in any way, but it was no what the modern society expects. When he went to that school the exotics were Irish, Italians, even believe it or not Scots!!! Before you bite I should mention that father was very active with Liverpool Harriers, enjoying fully his time with adults & children of every colour & creed, from aspirants up to GB Internationals, all good mates. So judgements can be a bit premature, before one gains a fuller picture of the meanings involved. Often people just read the headlines and ignore facts, (Brexit?), take for instance children's books of old? I have Herge books, W.E. Johns books, Frank Richards books, even Enid Blyton book. The revisionists revile those writers, with strong words against them. But Even if then they don't always get their facts right. Herge has been called a racist, yet if one reads the spirit of his writings and not just condemn outright they might find out that Tin Tin was very non-racist, in fact altruistic. His mentor, who got him writing was a racist, but then again he was also a Catholic Priest? Herge fell out with him big style. So education involves looking at all of the history of society, then trying not to fail to b a decent human being. MM
* Just read Reohn2's last post. You cause more offence that you really should! Why do you employ micro text in a post? To obscure or to irritate?? Answer one simple question - If as we must agree we have a housing crisis in this country. We haven't got enough housing for all who want or need such. We also have what is called "Sub-Standard Housing", lacking modern amenities such as central heating. I qualify for better on that count, no C/H. How do we solve that problem? The Derek Hatton way, bankrupt a City by doctrinal means, or the M. Thatcher way, "Let them eat cake" style? Neither offers a real solution As I own my own home do I have to give it up and join the already long queue for a Council House? My late parents died after 65 years of being on the waiting list! I loathe the practises of both Hatton & Thatcher and therefore their successors Corbyn & Reece Mogg, so if you ain't offering a solution you are part of the problem! MM
Last edited by merseymouth on 20 Oct 2019, 2:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
MM We have a PM who attracts massive credence from the Brexit side,this man(I hesitate at that title),has termed Muslim women as letter boxes,African women as having "watermelon smiles, among many other racist and homophobic comments both in speech and in print,and tells barefaced lies at the drop of a hat to suit his agenga. But this man still attracts support both by his party,almost half of the HofC.His party also prop up the DUP,a more disgraceful and disgusting bunch of mercenaries you couldn't wish to meet.
You by default appear to support this party and PM,because they support Brexit. If that's true have you any idea just how low you've sunk in such support
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
I don't support this government or any Tories of the past. I admired Thatcher for her strength, but not her politics. She's twice or three times the "man" of any that followed ....... and are likely to follow of any political leaning. Couldn't stand the woman or what she stood for and what she did, but at least she was strong and had the backing.
I want to leave the Union of Europe asap. I never wanted to join in the first place. We all know my sentiments on this!
However, I do not agree that all people who want to leave UofE support BoJo or any of his ilk.
Hi MickF, Plus +++ for that! With regards to Boris, how many of his detractors have written to him to point out his errors? I have, when he was editor of he Spectator. I got a full & frank apology from him. Only Tony Benn ranks higher than him on that score, way better than the chip off the Benn block. MM
Oldjohnw wrote:It seems to me that Parliament is actually doing its job which is to apply scrutiny to bills and hold the executive to account. Even the smallest bit of legislation normally gets line by line scrutiny in committee. But with Brexit the government keeps things secret until the day before or even the day of the vote so as to steamroller it through without scrutiny. They've done this from the start.
Democracy would have recognised that the 'losers' were a large minority and had to be considered and May would right at the start tried to gain consensus. Instead she tried at the very beginning to sideline Parliament. Time and again the courts have had to be involved for parliament to have any discussion. And the government is, it appears, still at it.
Absolutely spot on! Rule No 1 don't trust a Tory.
What even a Tory Blair Even Balls and Red Ed said they got it wrong saying spend it out of recession. Though I don't agree what councils are doing like closing toilets just to save pennies. Care seems spasmodic choosing some and leaving most to suffer.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Mick F wrote:I never wanted to join in the first place. We all know my sentiments on this!
Yes indeed we know, because you've repeated those exact words I don't know how many umpteens of times on this forum! Could you perhaps come up with something a bit different?
Almost as bad as the person (also on this forum) whom I called out for repeating the words "You lost, get over it!" or something similar. Yet another trope we're getting tired of.
Feel free to inform me of what sentiments I'm repeating too often! Yes I know I have to come up with that "tissue of lies" one often enough! Until others really believe me!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
l 661-Pete, We in the know all agree the civilization ends just as one passes south of Watford! They've spent to long moaning about Southern Rail without knowing what a really cr*ap rail service is like, oh that you could experience Norther Trains at it's worst . I personally think it is due o all of the cheap booze cruises that used to be laid on, Plonk, Plonk, Fizz. MM
reohn2 wrote:MM We have a PM who attracts massive credence from the Brexit side,this man(I hesitate at that title),has termed Muslim women as letter boxes,African women as having "watermelon smiles, among many other racist and homophobic comments both in speech and in print,and tells barefaced lies at the drop of a hat to suit his agenga. But this man still attracts support both by his party,almost half of the HofC.His party also prop up the DUP,a more disgraceful and disgusting bunch of mercenaries you couldn't wish to meet.
You by default appear to support this party and PM,because they support Brexit. If that's true have you any idea just how low you've sunk in such support
There is something called "Capacity"
An individual has the "capacity" to make a decision whether it is wise or not. It can then be up to others to mitigate the dangers of that decision and to protect the person from the cost and risk of that decision.
That is where we are at the present time
We also have a situation where Boris is popular with those who feel he will give them what they want.... very much in the same way as Trump has his supporters
reohn2 wrote:MM We have a PM who attracts massive credence from the Brexit side,this man(I hesitate at that title),has termed Muslim women as letter boxes,African women as having "watermelon smiles, among many other racist and homophobic comments both in speech and in print,and tells barefaced lies at the drop of a hat to suit his agenga. But this man still attracts support both by his party,almost half of the HofC.His party also prop up the DUP,a more disgraceful and disgusting bunch of mercenaries you couldn't wish to meet.
You by default appear to support this party and PM,because they support Brexit. If that's true have you any idea just how low you've sunk in such support
There is something called "Capacity"
An individual has the "capacity" to make a decision whether it is wise or not. It can then be up to others to mitigate the dangers of that decision and to protect the person from the cost and risk of that decision.
That is where we are at the present time
We also have a situation where Boris is popular with those who feel he will give them what they want.... very much in the same way as Trump has his supporters
In essence, dopes looking for a rope to hang themselves with feel that a monster will give them some single thing they crave (and they have only the promise of a monster, which is generally not worth much) whilst ignoring the 101 other things the monster is likely to do that will degrade or perhaps even end their lives.
Humans are so clever, innit!?
Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Audax67 wrote: The EU is still recovering from taking on the old Iron Curtain countries when Communism collapsed. We're still carrying Greece as well, come to that.
You need to remember that the EU isn't a club, as it's fashionable to say in the UK, but an economic arrangement formed to avoid internal conflict and promote the interests of all member countries.* Assisting poorer neighbours is only of interest when it is compatible with those aims. We took on the USSR's old buffer states not for their benefit but to keep them from going back to being Russia's pawns. It was in our interest then, but it gave our economy a right whack in the back of the knees.
BTW, Greece lied to get in just as the UK leavers lied to get out. Do you reckon they wouldn't veto Turkey getting in?
* actually, this was pretty well the original definition of a club: a bunch of people who banded together to have greater financial clout. However, these days it's more like a bunch of folk who like to ride bikes together.
Simplistic and slanted analysis of Greece is simplistic
Admittedly, but the true situation is more like a cat-herding competition.
The true situation is entirely of the EU's making.
.