Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
https://road.cc/content/feature/267053- ... st-gimmick
Not keen on them myself - must load up the seat tube?
Ugly as can be!
Cheers James
Not keen on them myself - must load up the seat tube?
Ugly as can be!
Cheers James
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
done well, in carbon, it can increase the frame's movement when you go over bumps.
Done as well as it is usually done, in other materials, it can promote premature failure of the frame. I've seen quite a few break there.
cheers
Done as well as it is usually done, in other materials, it can promote premature failure of the frame. I've seen quite a few break there.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Not my style of bike and i am no engineer at all.
Isn't the idea sold on increased stiffness?
But do you then get a reduction in stiffness of the entire contraption from the longer "exposed" seat tube and post?
Or is that sold as comfort/flexibility?
Isn't the idea sold on increased stiffness?
But do you then get a reduction in stiffness of the entire contraption from the longer "exposed" seat tube and post?
Or is that sold as comfort/flexibility?
Last edited by Sweep on 20 Oct 2019, 4:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sweep
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Hugely fashionable at the moment (sell 'em more) and probably proving that they're all made in the same factory. I'm not convinced by the "stiff yet compliant" sales blurb but some bikes look OK.
Cycling UK Life Member
PBP Ancien (2007)
PBP Ancien (2007)
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Spinners wrote:Hugely fashionable at the moment (sell 'em more) and probably proving that they're all made in the same factory. I'm not convinced by the "stiff yet compliant" sales blurb but some bikes look OK.
"stiff yet compliant" is the new
"waterproof yet breathable"
Everyone is putting it on every model they make. Hands-up who is convinced??
The latest press that I have seen claims the dropped seat stays have less drag - which does at least seem feasible. They certainly seem structurally dubious, so I'm not surprised if Brucey has seen failures. Of course in the real world, people put bags on their bikes and/or lights etc, so the tiny aero improvments will be quickly swallowed up. What %age of MAMILs are *actually* riding road-races??
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
As ugly as <not allowed to say that> on a blanket.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Aesthetically I don't mind the look of them.I'm not convinced they're any better or worse than traditional stays.I personally don't like the skinny look of the old 60s/70s frames with curved forks but many love them.Fashion and trends come and go.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
some kind of bending moment at work? Given how thin the tubes are I wouldnt want a bike like that!
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
I guess that it can make some sense with CF, especially for racing cyclists that need every scrap of pedalling efficiency they can hang onto. I don't think that it's a good idea with steel, and it's even worse for aluminium.
There were two reasons to have the seat stays meet at the same place as the top tube, or at least in the same area on traditional diamond frames. The first is to reduce the heat affected zone (from welding or brazing). The second reason is tube thickness. On a butted frame, the thickness varies, increasing in areas where there are stress risers, and and decreasing where stresses on the frame are lower. Having thinner walls allows frame builders & bike companies to save weight. If you lower the seat stays substantially, you need higher wall thickness due to the increased stresses, both from mounting the seat stays there, and from the mounting process, likely welding. The additional material needed for the seat tube is offset by less material needed for the stays.
The additional stiffness does have some advantage in the transfer of pedalling energy. However, that energy will now be transferred through the stays, and as Brucey says, result in premature failure, unless the material is made that much thicker again to make up for the higher stresses, and that kind of defeats the benefit.
There were two reasons to have the seat stays meet at the same place as the top tube, or at least in the same area on traditional diamond frames. The first is to reduce the heat affected zone (from welding or brazing). The second reason is tube thickness. On a butted frame, the thickness varies, increasing in areas where there are stress risers, and and decreasing where stresses on the frame are lower. Having thinner walls allows frame builders & bike companies to save weight. If you lower the seat stays substantially, you need higher wall thickness due to the increased stresses, both from mounting the seat stays there, and from the mounting process, likely welding. The additional material needed for the seat tube is offset by less material needed for the stays.
The additional stiffness does have some advantage in the transfer of pedalling energy. However, that energy will now be transferred through the stays, and as Brucey says, result in premature failure, unless the material is made that much thicker again to make up for the higher stresses, and that kind of defeats the benefit.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
It's mostly a way to try and make last year's model look obsolete so they can shift product.
Same with the 12mm TA that is replacing 9/10mm QR. Don't have it? Old-hat.
Another one is 'flat mount' disc brakes.
They are great news for bike vendors because they require a new frameset.
People making MTBs decided it would be a good idea to introduce a dozen different axle widths/diameters as well.
Same with the 12mm TA that is replacing 9/10mm QR. Don't have it? Old-hat.
Another one is 'flat mount' disc brakes.
They are great news for bike vendors because they require a new frameset.
People making MTBs decided it would be a good idea to introduce a dozen different axle widths/diameters as well.
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Did somebody mention bending moments?
Lean a stick against a wall.
Q. Where's the easiest place to break it with a kick?
A. I the middle.
Substitute the stick for a seat tube and the kick for the shock from a back wheel travelling up the stays.
There's the reason why hard tail mountain bikes don't have dropped stays.
Lean a stick against a wall.
Q. Where's the easiest place to break it with a kick?
A. I the middle.
Substitute the stick for a seat tube and the kick for the shock from a back wheel travelling up the stays.
There's the reason why hard tail mountain bikes don't have dropped stays.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
Audax67 wrote:As ugly as <not allowed to say that> on a blanket.
But reputedly to help the same stuff off a shovel.
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Oct 2019, 10:48am, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
100%JR wrote:Aesthetically I don't mind the look of them.I'm not convinced they're any better or worse than traditional stays.I personally don't like the skinny look of the old 60s/70s frames with curved forks but many love them.Fashion and trends come and go.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say
And fashion is a master that can never be satisfied
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
peetee wrote:There's the reason why hard tail mountain bikes don't have dropped stays.
Someone made one
https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/ge ... dera-r7773
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Re: Dropped seat stays - good bad or ugly?!
From a comfort point of view, they are superb, in my experience, they break the shock pathway up, between the wheel and the seat post to your spine, they also help with aero, and given that you spend 80% of your effort moving air out of your way, whilst cycling, every little helps. They do make the bike look fugly though. All in all, they are worth having.