Helmets in Spain

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
oldun
Posts: 35
Joined: 6 Jun 2016, 8:10am

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby oldun » 24 Oct 2019, 10:34am

:lol:
mattheus wrote:The helmet would make the same amount of difference as it does in a country where they *aren't* required. So there are very few situations where the insurer could wriggle out of paying much of your claim.
Your choice though - your head!



I wonder if a claim would be paid in full if a non seat belt wearing car driver was involved in an accident were the injuries would have been less severe had he/she been wearing a seat belt . I know insurance companies never try to wriggle out of paying claims , but you never know do you ?.....it could happen .

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14966
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby mjr » 24 Oct 2019, 4:12pm

oldun wrote::lol:
mattheus wrote:The helmet would make the same amount of difference as it does in a country where they *aren't* required. So there are very few situations where the insurer could wriggle out of paying much of your claim.
Your choice though - your head!



I wonder if a claim would be paid in full if a non seat belt wearing car driver was involved in an accident were the injuries would have been less severe had he/she been wearing a seat belt . I know insurance companies never try to wriggle out of paying claims , but you never know do you ?.....it could happen .

That seems a bit different. Where are the crash test dummy tests showing cycle helmets work in real situations? Where are the graphs showing an inverse correlation between helmet usage and head injuries in real populations? Both seem to exist for seat belts, although there are still debates about what the trend is - weaker than many would think but almost all I've seen still show a trend - while helmet usage / head injury rate plots look more like random throws.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Antan1
Posts: 79
Joined: 29 Mar 2013, 8:59pm
Location: Bray Co Wicklow Ireland

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Antan1 » 24 Oct 2019, 4:44pm

Hi, I used to live in Spain, it is law that you wear a helmet in non urban areas, wearing one in the heat actually keeps your head cooler than a cap.
Saying that you would be very unlucky to get an on the spot fine as most of the time the policia cannot be bothered.
I'd be more concerned about the insurance aspect should you have an accident.
Rob
Cannondale SL4 MTB. Trek Checkpoint ALR5

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14966
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby mjr » 24 Oct 2019, 5:24pm

Antan1 wrote:Hi, I used to live in Spain, it is law that you wear a helmet in non urban areas, wearing one in the heat actually keeps your head cooler than a cap.

As someone who switched from a cap to a helmet and back to a cap, I don't agree that a helmet - which is basically made of similar stuff to cavity wall insulation - is cooler than a layer of cotton.

The what-will-my-insurer-do is a more plausible reason to worry - or simply to avoid cycling in rural Spain until the law is repealed. There are plenty of friendlier countries to tour.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 48168
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Mick F » 25 Oct 2019, 10:42am

mjr wrote:As someone who switched from a cap to a helmet and back to a cap, I don't agree that a helmet - which is basically made of similar stuff to cavity wall insulation - is cooler than a layer of cotton.
Agree.
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 48168
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Mick F » 25 Oct 2019, 10:44am

pedalsheep wrote:A roadie friend of mine was given an on the spot fine for not wearing a helmet in Spain a year or two ago. IIRC it was a €50 fine.
Then what happened?

If he'd carried on with his ride, would he still be at risk for being fined again, and again, and again .................... ?
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
pedalsheep
Posts: 1067
Joined: 11 Aug 2009, 7:57pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby pedalsheep » 25 Oct 2019, 2:38pm

Mick F wrote:
pedalsheep wrote:A roadie friend of mine was given an on the spot fine for not wearing a helmet in Spain a year or two ago. IIRC it was a €50 fine.
Then what happened?

If he'd carried on with his ride, would he still be at risk for being fined again, and again, and again .................... ?


Hmmm...... Good question! I think he was returning from a ride and then acquired a helmet for the rest of his holiday. He was at a training camp in Calpe.
He was not a happy bunny!
'Why cycling for joy is not the most popular pastime on earth is still a mystery to me.'
Frank J Urry, Salute to Cycling, 1956.

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 365
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Syd » 25 Oct 2019, 9:37pm

mjr wrote:
Antan1 wrote:Hi, I used to live in Spain, it is law that you wear a helmet in non urban areas, wearing one in the heat actually keeps your head cooler than a cap.

As someone who switched from a cap to a helmet and back to a cap, I don't agree that a helmet - which is basically made of similar stuff to cavity wall insulation - is cooler than a layer of cotton.


I would agree whilst riding with my aero TT helmet but disagree if riding with my ‘normal’ road one. Number of vents and all that.

mjr wrote: The what-will-my-insurer-do is a more plausible reason to worry

Unfortunately that’s a given.

MarkF
Posts: 435
Joined: 4 Apr 2011, 10:20am

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby MarkF » 25 Oct 2019, 10:57pm

I have criss crossed Spain for 10 years, the last time in September this year, BCN to Elche, I've never worn a helmet and have never had anybody ask my why I wasn't wearing one. This is despite many times asking the police for directions in/nearing towns.

IMO you'd (as a foreigner) have to be really unlucky and meet a really bad tempered, pernickety cop to have a problem.

molly
Posts: 48
Joined: 23 Mar 2009, 6:09am

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby molly » 26 Oct 2019, 12:09am

This is a comment not a judgement as I do believe people should have a choice on whether to wear a helmet or not however I have to speak up for wearing helmets because of personal experience. My helmet has prevented me having serious head injury on two occasions and almost certainly saved my life on another. The most serious incident did not involve traffic either just a dog on a badly managed extending lead!
I have been cycling in Spain several times a year for at least 10 years now and always wear a helmet. The helmet I wear is so light and airy that I hardly know I have it on. It is the same make and model that I had on when involved in the worst accident. Admittedly it was badly damaged but I have great faith in the brand(.. and before anyone asks it was a catlike whisper)

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 856
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Ivor Tingting » 26 Oct 2019, 3:58pm

molly wrote:This is a comment not a judgement as I do believe people should have a choice on whether to wear a helmet or not however I have to speak up for wearing helmets because of personal experience. My helmet has prevented me having serious head injury on two occasions and almost certainly saved my life on another. The most serious incident did not involve traffic either just a dog on a badly managed extending lead!
I have been cycling in Spain several times a year for at least 10 years now and always wear a helmet. The helmet I wear is so light and airy that I hardly know I have it on. It is the same make and model that I had on when involved in the worst accident. Admittedly it was badly damaged but I have great faith in the brand(.. and before anyone asks it was a catlike whisper)


Surprised this comment has not been removed by the forum censors for being pro helmet and not according with the general anti helmet brigade on this thread. Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread irrelevant but each attempt my comment has subsequently been REMOVED. Nasty. Third time lucky. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury. When I have toured in the Picos Northern Spain I have always worn a helmet and experienced no problems.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4401
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Oct 2019, 4:15pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:
Surprised this comment has not been removed by the forum censors for being pro helmet and not according with the general anti helmet brigade on this thread. Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread is irrelevant but each occasion my comment has been REMOVED. Nasty. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury.


I quite agree: pro helmet efficacy threads should be removed to the helmet ghetto.

Perhaps if I point out your mistakes about efficacy it will be.

What do you think would be the effect on cycling casualties if a country passed a law mandating helmets? If the wearing rate increased from about a third to near one hundred per cent overnight? Surely there would be a perceptible effect on casualties if helmet wearing was effective?
This happened. The country was Australia and the change in cycling casualty rate insignificant. How do you explain that?

There is no country where helmet laws have reduced casualty rates. Note that this is an argument against helmet laws, but also an argument against helmet efficacy.

Paramedics (and medics) are trained in injury repair, but not in how to reduce rates. In this they are subject to the same biases as the rest of us. Henry Marsh is a neurosurgeon who cycles around London lidless.

Calling those who disagree with you a "brigade" is a poor debating style.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 26 Oct 2019, 4:53pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4401
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Oct 2019, 4:31pm

Ivor Tingting wrote: I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury. When I have toured in the Picos Northern Spain I have always worn a helmet and experienced no problems.


I have only once banged my head, in many years of cycling. Luckily I was wearing a Festina cotton cap and did not need to call an ambulance.

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 856
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Ivor Tingting » 26 Oct 2019, 5:09pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Surprised this comment has not been removed by the forum censors for being pro helmet and not according with the general anti helmet brigade on this thread. Twice now I have commented on this thread in support of wearing a helmet which makes this thread is irrelevant but each occasion my comment has been REMOVED. Nasty. I suspect the Spanish paramedics are no different to Uk ones who when they arrive to help you when you are lying injured in the road, the first thing they are ask is "Have you hit your head? Good to see you wearing a helmet!" I know, as twice it has happened to me and on both occasions I was asked this and a helmet saved my head from injury.


I quite agree: pro helmet efficacy threads should be removed to the helmet ghetto.

Perhaps if I point out your mistakes about efficacy it will be.

What do you think would be the effect on cycling casualties if a country passed a law mandating helmets? If the wearing rate increased from about a third to near one hundred per cent overnight? Surely there would be a perceptible effect on casualties if helmet wearing was effective?
This happened. The country was Australia and the change in cycling casualty rate insignificant. How do you explain that?

There is no country where helmet laws have reduced casualty rates. Note that this is an argument against helmet laws, but also an argument against helmet efficacy.

Paramedics (and medics) are trained in injury repair, but not in how to reduce rates. In this they are subject to the same biases as the rest of us. Henry Marsh is a neurosurgeon who cycles around London lidless.

Calling those who disagree with you a "brigade" is a poor debating style.


I refer you to the OP's title and question.

Re: Helmets in Spain
further wrote:We might be going to the Costa Blanca next year,what is the real world position with cycle helmets ?
Grateful for any input
C



The real world position is being worn on your head as with cycling anywhere in the world. When in Rome as they say. If you wear a helmet anyway there is not an issue. I come from personal choice of self preservation. There is no way I would want the awkward situation of being in a country where I am contravening rules and unable speak their language, my Spanish is very poor, and as a result having to pay an on the spot fine of unknown quantity should I be stopped by an over zealous copper and his friend for not wearing one. I should imagine any on the spot fine would easily exceed the cost of a basic cycle helmet. But each to their own. As I say I wear mine so not a problem. I have found the people of Northern Spain to be very friendly indeed. Be careful wild camping as it is not allowed simply because I think the Spanish are so worried about forest fires. I have done it, arrive late leave early and deep in the middle of nowhere, but have not cooked as I believe the penalties if you unfortunately start a fire can be severe. You only have to look at the huge fires that burned much of Gran Canaria a few months ago.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4401
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Helmets in Spain

Postby Mike Sales » 26 Oct 2019, 5:18pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:I refer you to the OP's title and question.

Re: Helmets in Spain
further wrote:We might be going to the Costa Blanca next year,what is the real world position with cycle helmets ?
Grateful for any input
C



The real world position is being worn on your head as with cycling anywhere in the world. When in Rome as they say. If you wear a helmet anyway there is not an issue. I come from personal choice of self preservation. There is no way I would want the awkward situation of being in a country where I couldn't speak the language, my Spanish is very poor, of having to pay an on the spot fine of unknown quantity should I be stopped by an over zealous copper and his friend for not wearing one. I should imagine any on the spot fine would easily exceed the cost of a basic cycle helmet. But each to their own.


Yes, the O.P. asked about the enforcement position, not about efficacy, as I understand it. Certainly responders seemed to think so.
I am not clear what your first sentence means.
Clearly if you are going to be fined for not wearing, a helmet is a good idea. I would count a helmet law as a minus in deciding on a holiday tour.
You seemed to feel the need to go further in helmet advocacy than informing about the likelihood of getting pinched.

As you admitted, advocacy belongs in the helmet ghetto.