** The General Election Thread **

[Psamathe]

(A bit of an experiment but I suspect not too much overlap with other threads)

Last night the horrors of the General Election were brought home to me: TV coverage. Our local BBC Regional magazine program (BBC1 18:50-19:00) had a classic "election" item. They went to a town and sought a few mothers with prams in a park and a few trades after work in the pub and sought their opinions. And the "host" was coming out with comments like (words to the effect of) "There you go, a significant difference of opinion between the Park and the Pub".

And they [BBC regional magazine program] are seeking and requesting more locations to do the same. It is things like that that make the General Election such a nightmare for me (as well as Party Political broadcasts).

It politicians was to spare the electorate what they already recognise as unpopular they could opt for significantly reduced party political airtime and TV programs could ask themselves if their proposed coverage is really adding anything useful beyond filling broadcast minutes.

Ian

[Cyril Haearn]

On the Glorious Twelfth I should vote for the candidate who wants to stay in the EU, even if they were in the 'wrong' party

Hold ones nose and vote for the Lib Dems?

[661-Pete]

Hold ones nose and vote for the Lib Dems?

Better not read the Grauniad then. Steve Bell (bless him! but not all the time!) is doing a full hatchet job on Jo, just at the moment. I can't think why - but then Steve has always been capricious...

[mercalia]

One good reason not to have a TV license? I will be spared all that drivel that wears you down to much

[Mick F]

The issue I have, is that I'm a lifelong labour supporter in everything except I want us to leave the EU, and labour don't.
Our tory candidate is a remainer. So I won't be voting for her for both reasons.
If there's a liberal democrat standing, they won't be any use for me either.

SE Cornwall has historically been Liberal and Tory.

On balance, it'll be labour, but they won't stand a chance down here.

[Oldjohnw]

I've never voted either Labour or Tory in a GE. But I've always voted so you can probably work out my record. I don't like voting tactically but prefer to vote on principle.

This year I am struggling. Above all I don't want the Tories with a majority. But I fear that even if all non Tory parties voted as one the incumbent Tory junior minister and Johnson worshipper would not be unseated.
The Greens don't have a hope electorally but they do have a message.

[Cugel]

On the Glorious Twelfth I should vote for the candidate who wants to stay in the EU, even if they were in the 'wrong' party

Hold ones nose and vote for the Lib Dems?

Here's the central problem - it's going to be a one-issue election. Moreover, the issue is itself a very stupid affair drummed-up by rabid newspap and far right Tories, with the electorate whipped up into a meaningless frenzy about what is a non-issue - other than being a queer cut-off-nose-to-spite-face and bring back The Empire fantasy.

Lucky me! I can vote for Plaid Cymru, who are fairly leftish (for business & farming but not at the expense of destroying communities and everything else) and in favour of remaining in the EU despite also being nationalist (in the nicest possible way - love of place & traditions rather than just a mindless hatred of foreigners).

Cugel

[Graham]

Hmmm . . . . I've just heard Jeremy Corbyn kicking off the Labour campaign . . . . regarding NHS - the choreographed mob chanting "Not for sale : Not for sale : Not for sale . . . . . . "

This brings to mind the same sort of brainless nonsense from the Trump rallies.

Now, I'm wondering if I have just heard the equivalent of the Neil Kinnock rock-star razzle. . . . . The razzle that help sink his campaign . . . .

OTOH. We might ALL have significantly fewer braincells since that memorable event and THAT-sort-of-thing may become more common.
Can I still afford a visit to that clinic in Zurich ? . . .
Wha'dy' mean . . . you have already set up a crowdfunding page

[Psamathe]

The issue I have, is that I'm a lifelong labour supporter in everything except I want us to leave the EU, and labour don't......

Labour didn't at 9:23am, but then came 10:47, and after that we had 11:17 closely followed by 12:32. What you have to try and guess is what stance Labour might be taking on Polling Day. Only problm you face is that if you vote at 13:54, they might have found a different fence to sit on by 14:29.

More seriously I thought Labour's policy was to have a Confirmatory Referendum. They'd initially negotiate a new "Labour Deal" (classic "Not Invented Here Syndrome") then referendum "their deal" or "Remain". I think in reality they "negotiate" the reverting to May's deal for the Withdrawal Agreement but have a different Political Statement - which should be pretty easy and quick. Much of the stuff Labour object to in May/Johnson's deal is stuff the EU have nothing to do with (for Withdrawal) e.g. Workers Rights, Environmental Regulation - if we want to align ourselves with EU workers rights and/or environmental protections it's nothing to to with the Withdrawal Agreement (though alignment might make the subsequent trade deal a lot easier, but that all comes later).

Also, as with any General Election, you can never agree with every policy of any party so it becomes about where you place the balance based on what you regard as important and what not so important. These days I could never vote Conservative (irrespective of my EU membership opinions) on the basis of their policy/historic action/attitude to the NHS, austerity, vulnerable in society, tax, workers protections, etc., etc.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Hmmm . . . . I've just heard Jeremy Corbyn kicking off the Labour campaign . . . . regarding NHS - the choreographed mob chanting "Not for sale : Not for sale : Not for sale . . . . . . "
.......

I saw Corbyn "all fired up" on TV last night (surrounded by his auditioned entourage). It was embarrassing, it's just not him or not what he's good at.

Ian

[pete75]

The country is bitterly divided and may be even more so after Brexit especially if everything does go breasts up. It seems we're going to get a Tory government led by a right wing populist. The only Conservative government with any chance of healing the nation's divisions would be of the One Nation Conservative persuasion. Most of the one nation Conservative MPs have either left or been expelled from the party by Johnson. That bodes ill for the shape of any government he leads.

Mrs Thatcher has often been called right wing but her cabinets always had the likes of Willie Whitelaw, Geoffrey Howe, Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, John Major etc in prominent positions. All the sort of people Johnson would have expelled from the party.

[roubaixtuesday]

I've never been able to vote in an election where the parties and their leaders are so universally repellent.

The sight of moderates resigning from both Labour and Tories is beyond depressing.

But Johnson, above all, personifies the very worst attributes of political leadership, and looks likely to win, quite possibly with a large majority on a low vote thanks to the vicissitudes of our system.

Dark times we live in.

[al_yrpal]

The country is bitterly divided and may be even more so after Brexit especially if everything does go breasts up. It seems we're going to get a Tory government led by a right wing populist. The only Conservative government with any chance of healing the nation's divisions would be of the One Nation Conservative persuasion. Most of the one nation Conservative MPs have either left or been expelled from the party by Johnson. That bodes ill for the shape of any government he leads.

Mrs Thatcher has often been called right wing but her cabinets always had the likes of Willie Whitelaw, Geoffrey Howe, Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, John Major etc in prominent positions. All the sort of people Johnson would have expelled from the party.

Werent they called wets? Dead sheep savaging, KeKe Ken, Tarzan and the grey man who loved peas and signed that awful treaty. Pity Spitting Image isnt back on the box yet.. Pass the popcorn.

Al

[pete75]

The country is bitterly divided and may be even more so after Brexit especially if everything does go breasts up. It seems we're going to get a Tory government led by a right wing populist. The only Conservative government with any chance of healing the nation's divisions would be of the One Nation Conservative persuasion. Most of the one nation Conservative MPs have either left or been expelled from the party by Johnson. That bodes ill for the shape of any government he leads.

Mrs Thatcher has often been called right wing but her cabinets always had the likes of Willie Whitelaw, Geoffrey Howe, Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, John Major etc in prominent positions. All the sort of people Johnson would have expelled from the party.

Werent they called wets? Dead sheep savaging, KeKe Ken, Tarzan and the grey man who loved peas and signed that awful treaty. Pity Spitting Image isnt back on the box yet.. Pass the popcorn.

Al

I realise they're all well to the left of what you think a Conservative politician should be but they were all reasonably competent conservatives of the One Nation variety.

[al_yrpal]

Quite liked all of them actually Pete, but they were so overshadowed by Mrs T it was hard to determine what their actual politics were. Hesa was our MP before Boris. I met both briefly. Boris saved our pub! Its still going strong.

Al