** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Dec 2019, 10:15am

Hi,

Oldjohnw wrote:People sometimes speak of the idea of keep having referenda until you get he result you want.

Is that a bit like May and Johnson keep having elections until they get the result they want?

Okay so I want to leave you want to stay, Let's get that one out the way for whatever reasons we have.
In stark contrast to the torys Corby wants to renegotiate the deal, so he's not abandoning the deal or automatically saying we will stay.
The second part is just another referendum, in his two stage campaign to sort out Brexit.

Let's say Labour win the election, or even gets a landslide victory and a majority.
The deal will have to be different and be more favourable than the one let's say That has slim-ly been passed by the MPs.
Then the EU will have to okay it.
Then we have the second referendum, which will still be in or out for everybody.
Corby says six months?
So I think myself why not just negotiate another deal in three months and leave?

I think that because Corby has never favoured leave or remain, And doesn't want to state so, is why we are getting two bites.
So what's going to happen-
Labour wins And that's a majority.
Negotiates a new deal in three months.
Second referendum and we stay.
That's assuming it all stays to schedule and EU play ball.

Second scenario –
Labour wins but not a majority.
The schedule for a New deal does not go to plan.
We never get to the second part.

You know the third scenario.

you might wish to scrap the whole thing and stay.
I might wish to leave tomorrow.
But putting that aside which scenario do you think is most likely to happen?

If we think along "Horizon's" gentleman's approach (which I favour) It's still clear as mud and just a sticky as porridge that's cold porridge.

The general election will solve nothing of course.
Because it will be another polarised in out.
In the slim chance Labour wins this will still finish with another in out.
So we are just biding our time, The result is probably inevitable and already sown.

if the boot was on the other foot for me, I might wish to scrap the whole thing and stay.
But is this the democratic way?
Put it this way if you wanted to leave would you be happy with scrapping the whole thing today?

The can of worms has already been opened The seeds are sown and we are just going to have to accept the results.

Mob rule?
it simply not going to happen, there are too many sane people on all sides meaning it will simply be a nonstarter.

Is it democratic, It might not fit in with your view of the democracy or mine, But like horizon says it will all come down to what people want what people feel they want not facts and figures.

Edited- sorry. Auto correct.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 7 Dec 2019, 11:29am

Very unexciting two heads debate. Obviously both candidates had been fully briefed to avoid gaffes. Punches landed by both sides but deflected by prepared statements. The election auction looks more favourable on the Labour side but there are huge public misgivings over whether the cost can be covered. I believe its the same for the Tories. But the outstanding carbuncle remains Brexit and I think that will be the decisive factor which after all is what this election is all about.

Al
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 11 Dec 2019, 7:58am

The vast majority of posters on this ever-so-long thread are staunch remainers. Where will you all be putting your X on the ballot paper tomorrow?
Mick F. Cornwall

nez
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby nez » 11 Dec 2019, 9:58am

Mick F wrote:The vast majority of posters on this ever-so-long thread are staunch remainers. Where will you all be putting your X on the ballot paper tomorrow?

I imagine most cyclists are on the green/left of centre politically? Am I wrong?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 11 Dec 2019, 10:02am

I think you are correct. We've done the Political Compass test a few times on here, and just about all of the contributors were left/liberals, including me.

I still want us out of the EU, but more than that, I want rid of the all the Tories. If that means we remain, so be it.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Dec 2019, 11:32am

Mick F wrote:I think you are correct. We've done the Political Compass test a few times on here, and just about all of the contributors were left/liberals, including me.

I still want us out of the EU, but more than that, I want rid of the all the Tories. If that means we remain, so be it.


Now there is some sensible, pragmatic thinking.

+1
John

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100%JR
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 100%JR » 11 Dec 2019, 1:25pm

Mick F wrote:The vast majority of posters on this ever-so-long thread are staunch remainers. Where will you all be putting your X on the ballot paper tomorrow?

Labour.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 11 Dec 2019, 1:42pm

Mick F wrote:The vast majority of posters on this ever-so-long thread are staunch remainers. Where will you all be putting your X on the ballot paper tomorrow?


Undecided between Labour and Green. Will decide in the booth probably.

It matters little as the seat is ultra safe Tory - would go green except for a nagging doubt that Labour are likely second, and in the (ultra unlikely) circumstances McVey won by a single vote I'd never forgive myself!

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 11 Dec 2019, 1:59pm

Hi,
Mick F wrote:I think you are correct. We've done the Political Compass test a few times on here, and just about all of the contributors were left/liberals, including me.

I still want us out of the EU, but more than that, I want rid of the all the Tories. If that means we remain, so be it.

I can't go that far.
You've just moved a bit further left Mick.
now you are happy to stay if you can get rid of the other side.
Changing EU connections that are set in stone Come once a lifetime.
But you will probably see another GE in your lifetime
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Dec 2019, 2:00pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Mick F wrote:The vast majority of posters on this ever-so-long thread are staunch remainers. Where will you all be putting your X on the ballot paper tomorrow?


Undecided between Labour and Green. Will decide in the booth probably.

It matters little as the seat is ultra safe Tory - would go green except for a nagging doubt that Labour are likely second, and in the (ultra unlikely) circumstances McVey won by a single vote I'd never forgive myself!


Similar here. All non Tory votes together at last election did not reach the Tory figure. I am not aware of any change so I will probably vote Green. It is important that their message is recognised and spread as widely as possible. Numbers matter.
John

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 11 Dec 2019, 2:05pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Mick F wrote:I think you are correct. We've done the Political Compass test a few times on here, and just about all of the contributors were left/liberals, including me.

I still want us out of the EU, but more than that, I want rid of the all the Tories. If that means we remain, so be it.


Now there is some sensible, pragmatic thinking.

+1

I agree.
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 11 Dec 2019, 3:21pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Mick F wrote:I think you are correct. We've done the Political Compass test a few times on here, and just about all of the contributors were left/liberals, including me.

I still want us out of the EU, but more than that, I want rid of the all the Tories. If that means we remain, so be it.

I can't go that far.
You've just moved a bit further left Mick.
now you are happy to stay if you can get rid of the other side.
Changing EU connections that are set in stone Come once a lifetime.
But you will probably see another GE in your lifetime
I haven't moved anywhere.

I'm a Left Liberal, always have been, but I have also always been wanting us out of the EU.
Shouldn't have joined in the first place!

Do the Political Compass test again if you want. I'm still equated with Gandhi.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Mick F. Cornwall

nez
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby nez » 11 Dec 2019, 6:05pm

Thanks for your replies, Mick and all. Yes I probably subscribe or did subscribe to the same view - left/green leaning long time labour supporter, voted for Brexit on the basis the EU is what the French call a pagaille. I don't want Iraqi and Syrian refugees locked up in Greek and Serbian concentration camps in my name by EU officials commandeering what is effectively our British immigration policy. What I hadn't counted on was our ability to construct an even bigger mess ourselves while being rude and condescending to everyone in the EU - especially the Irish. So, I have reformed to being a remainer and would rather my neighbour's cat ran the government than the Tories.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby robing » 11 Dec 2019, 6:18pm

So this election is supposedly all about Brexit. Just remember 4 years ago nobody was bothered about it or had even heard of it .

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 11 Dec 2019, 6:21pm

nez wrote: ............ and would rather my neighbour's cat ran the government than the Tories.
:lol: :lol:
Wonderful!

We have three cats, and parrot, and a young border collie.
Any one of them, or all five, could make a better job than any of the Tories.
Mick F. Cornwall