pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

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Mick F
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2020, 10:18am

My Campag Victory pedals I had years ago were dismantle-able and had lose adjustable ball bearings in there. I stripped and cleaned them out a few times over the years. My Campag Pro Fits aren't serviceable so get left ......... though I don't use road pedals any more.

Now use Speedplay Frogs on the bikes, and there's a little screw on the outside end that you remove and inject grease. I do it monthly or so. Lovely and smooth operation, and the bearings are replaceable from Speedplay. I may pull them out and check the sizing as I reckon they'll be cheap enough from Simply Bearings ........... not that I envisage them ever wearing out though.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2020, 10:21am

Sweep wrote:
fatboy wrote:
reohn2 wrote:FWIW,SPD M520'S are fantastic,great ball bearings which last seemingly forever(I've yet to wearout the bearings on any one of the six pair I own and use and some are almost 20 years old.) needing only occasional adjustment,cheap @ £20 to £30, cleats can be worn with touring,mtb or road shoes,secure and solid platform and plenty of float.
Simply brilliant.


What he said! Get the cheap plastic tool and grease regularly by dismantling, filling the pedal void and the squidge it back together; it's messy but makes them run nice and smooth. I usually wear out the tops before the bearings!

Have you ever bothered taking the ball bearings out/adjusting or just left in place and greased? I ask as it looks a tad fiddly and I am wary of spoiling something.
I stress that I am not a total mechanical incompetent - I have dismantled and adjusted headsets and wheel bearings.

When I service them(which only tends to be if there's any play felt in the bearings),I wash out the grease (with White Spirit) of the whole a assembly without stripping it,dry off completely by wiping and playing a hair drier on them or placeing on a warm radiator for 1/2 an hour ,regrease ensuring the grease gets into all the bearing surfaces,then adjust the play out of them so they run smooth.Clean out the inside of the pedal body of old grease using WS in needs be,dry off.Almost squirt some some grease in it with the grease gun then assemble body and axle/bearing assembly tighten up the plastic locking sleeve remebering not to get the bodies and spindles mixed up as they're opposing threads :wink:
NOTE,It's also worth noting when undoing the plastic sleeve on initial disassembly to slacken in the thread direcrion clearly maked on the sleeve intself,as any attempt to undo it the wrong direction the end of the sleeve will just break off leaving the pedal unable to be stripped unless the remaining thread bit of sleeve left in the pedal body is melted out.
Ask me how I know :?
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Sweep
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Sweep » 14 Jan 2020, 10:43am

Thanks for info.
I did once try to turn the wrong way but discovered before I ruined anything.
Sweep

Brucey
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Brucey » 14 Jan 2020, 11:38am

pliptrot wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:Which shimano pedals disappointed you and why?
Brucey has covered both my problems above. I may be petulant about this, but if I am going to spend close to 100 quid on some pedals I expect them to be properly assembled. I am used to servicing Shimano pedals but recently I had a new set which developed a tight left pedal (it did not fall to the same position when unclipping) and I planned to fettle it at the weekend. 5 more days of 30km a day commuting and it was ruined..


That is what shimano's warranty is for.

The other thing that you can do is to buy a new pedal spindle assembly. This is expensive in relation to a pair of PD-M520 but it is cheap in relation to a more expensive set of pedals.

I long ago came to the conclusion that if I wanted to get the best out of any part (from any maker) a deal of fettling would be involved. That said, I think you have been unlucky.

BTW yes you can take the whole spindle assy apart, and yes it is fiddly. The ball bearings inside SPD pedals are only 3/32" dia (about 2.4mm)

cheers
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pwa
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby pwa » 14 Jan 2020, 11:48am

I currently buy A520s when I need pedals, which is very rarely because they last a long time. I will be buying that same pedal design as long as it is available because it ticks all the boxes for me and trying a new pedal design is a risk. Why risk a new design when the old one has nothing wrong with it? The last time I made that mistake I bought some very expensive Crank Bros Eggbeater pedals with stainless everything and one snapped on me, but only after several hundred miles of struggling with a fickle engagement procedure that was less predictable than Shimano. Lesson learned, I returned to Shimano A520s which were much nicer and less than half the price. With cycle components you should find what works for you, then stick with it.

bgnukem
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby bgnukem » 14 Jan 2020, 1:22pm

I use Wellgo WPD801 and have done for many years and while I can confirm they DO use sleeves, I've never worn them to the extent that ANY play is detectable, but then removing the pedal end cap and squeezing some grease along the axle by filling the end cap is a 5 minute job with a 6mm allen key and the pedal fitted to the bike, unlike the Shimano design with their plastic axle removal tools.....

pliptrot
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby pliptrot » 14 Jan 2020, 1:27pm

pwa wrote: very expensive Crank Bros Eggbeater pedals with stainless everything
.... and inboard bushings - an abomination!

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RickH
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby RickH » 14 Jan 2020, 3:17pm

reohn2 wrote:NOTE,It's also worth noting when undoing the plastic sleeve on initial disassembly to slacken in the thread direcrion clearly maked on the sleeve intself,as any attempt to undo it the wrong direction the end of the sleeve will just break off leaving the pedal unable to be stripped unless the remaining thread bit of sleeve left in the pedal body is melted out.
Ask me how I know :?

I've never felt the need to actually dismantle my M520s* which avoids this problem! My oldest pair are possible not even 520s but an earlier model (515?), from sometime in the 90s, & still going strong.

(*back in the day they came supplied with the plastic tool, & many years ago I may have undone one pedal, maybe both of a pair, purely out of curiosity rather than a desire to actually do anything sensible! :shock: )

pwa
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby pwa » 14 Jan 2020, 3:28pm

RickH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:NOTE,It's also worth noting when undoing the plastic sleeve on initial disassembly to slacken in the thread direcrion clearly maked on the sleeve intself,as any attempt to undo it the wrong direction the end of the sleeve will just break off leaving the pedal unable to be stripped unless the remaining thread bit of sleeve left in the pedal body is melted out.
Ask me how I know :?

I've never felt the need to actually dismantle my M520s* which avoids this problem! My oldest pair are possible not even 520s but an earlier model (515?), from sometime in the 90s, & still going strong.

(*back in the day they came supplied with the plastic tool, & many years ago I may have undone one pedal, maybe both of a pair, purely out of curiosity rather than a desire to actually do anything sensible! :shock: )

If you ever get the urge to do that again you could just clean the void and axle assembly of as much grease as you can with kitchen roll then put new grease in the void and screw the axle assembly back in. Without provoking trouble by tinkering with the actual bearings. Works for me.

I've had quite a few pairs of SPD pedals that I've treated in this way, or not maintained at all, and perhaps I've just been lucky but I've had zero bearing problems. If I bought a pair and they failed I'd be very disappointed, like the OP.

reohn2
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

Just to be clear,the only time I feel a need to seperate pedal body from axle assemby is when I feel play in the bearings,I then and only then do anything to my M520's.
I have a pair of M745's with the old style bindings that after many,many thousands of miles are still running as smooth as the day I bought them some time in the 90's and haven't been serviced once,but I don't use them much now due to the newer better open designed bindings of the M520's.
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nez
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby nez » 14 Jan 2020, 5:08pm

Mick F wrote:My Campag Victory pedals I had years ago were dismantle-able and had lose adjustable ball bearings in there. I stripped and cleaned them out a few times over the years. My Campag Pro Fits aren't serviceable so get left ......... though I don't use road pedals any more.

Now use Speedplay Frogs on the bikes, and there's a little screw on the outside end that you remove and inject grease. I do it monthly or so. Lovely and smooth operation, and the bearings are replaceable from Speedplay. I may pull them out and check the sizing as I reckon they'll be cheap enough from Simply Bearings ........... not that I envisage them ever wearing out though.


I have a couple of pairs of these, bought at the suggestion of Brucey a couple of years ago when I was moaning about pedals and my knees. I absolutely love them. I also grease them every month or two. You just keep pressing the injector till mucky grease comes out the back. They're simple to disassemble too.

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Mick F
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2020, 6:29pm

They are brilliant pedals.
Absolutely smitten by them.

Speedplay Frogs.
http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.frog

I think they are being classed as obsolescent now as some sellers don't seem to have them now, but you can still find them out there, and Speedplay have them on their website.

I have them on both bikes, and TBH, I may buy a spare set if they start getting rare.
Mick F. Cornwall

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vsmith1
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby vsmith1 » 15 Jan 2020, 6:38am

tatanab wrote:
pliptrot wrote:Anyone care to recommend pedals which are (1) SPD style.
Okay, these are not SPD compatible but are SPD "style". If you are prepared to use pedals that have not been made for almost 20 years, the first generation of Time ATAC (but NOT ATAC Alium) have proper bearings, no sleeve. The more modern design, XS, XC etc have sleeves. I use the old design exclusively and have done for many years. This eBay ad shows the first of them where the crank end bearing is secured by a C clip; they changed after a year of two to have a threaded cap at that end instead. I have both of those generations, and have enough used and new to "see me out". They can still be found on eBAy new or lightly used, although prices have risen in the last 5 years as they have been discovered. . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Time-ATAC-MT ... SwwFleGi8j
atac.jpg
I found the problem with sleeved ATACs, although I only tried one pair about 12 years ago, is that the sleeve wears and then the pedal body can rock a little. In my case it clicked which I could not stand.

I’ve had a pair since the mid 1990s. I’ve replaced the bearings twice and the clips once. Still going. I like the ATAC as they are better at engaging in cruddy conditions and more float. In fact I have ATAC on my various MTBs and tourer.

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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Brucey » 15 Jan 2020, 2:01pm

pliptrot wrote:
pwa wrote: very expensive Crank Bros Eggbeater pedals with stainless everything
.... and inboard bushings - an abomination!


IIRC the crank bros candy 3 has an inboard roller bearing instead of the crummy bushing. No idea if the rest of the pedal is any good or even if the sealing is up to snuff though.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: pedal bearing designs and morons writing about them

Postby Brucey » 15 Jan 2020, 2:12pm

BTW the plastic SPD pastrycutter tool seems fiddly to use at first but it isn't that bad. A ten minute job perhaps, once a year, is likely to be the least of your bicycle maintenance worries.

There are benefits to use of the pastrycutter tool, some of which are not immediately obvious. They include

1) a fuller and easier grease purge than you might get any other way
2) an opportunity to check that the locknut is tight, using the simplest tools
3) an opportunity to adjust the bearings again using simple tools
4) an opportunity to inspect clean/lubricate the bindings
5) the pedal has to come out of the crank if you want to use the pastrycutter tool.

The last of these seems like more work but IME if you remove the pedals from time to time, they are liable to go back in with grease on, and this means that they will never get seized in position.

If you have several bikes it isn't a bad idea to have a spare set of SPDs so that you can service pedals 'offline' as it were.

cheers
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