The next Labour Leader

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francovendee
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby francovendee » 16 Jan 2020, 11:11am

Do you think Ms Long-Bailey is more electable than Corbyn?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jan 2020, 11:25am

Hi,
So listening to the opinions of commentators is the way to read politics is it.
Everybody knows that following the Corby way will not get Labour elected.
It's not rocket science is it.
Maybe people have just changed the way they look at things nowadays and they don't want that old lefty stuff anymore, Put it this way Cobys ideas et cetera weren't that attractive to your modern thinking person.
Before you say anything I'm very old-fashioned type of person.
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PH
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby PH » 16 Jan 2020, 11:25am

francovendee wrote:Do you think Ms Long-Bailey is more electable than Corbyn?

I've responded to the comment I've quoted.
A couple of posts earlier I've said "I don't think Long-Bailey is the right choice, but would vote for her over some of the others" I don't have anything to add to that, other than the main task for the next leader is to build a united party of opposition. Regardless of the leader a divided party has no chance of winning an election.

PH
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby PH » 16 Jan 2020, 11:30am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
So listening to the opinions of commentators is the way to read politics is it.
Everybody knows that following the Corby way will not get Labour elected.
It's not rocket science is it.
Maybe people have just changed the way they look at things nowadays and they don't want that old lefty stuff anymore, Put it this way Cobys ideas et cetera weren't that attractive to your modern thinking person.
Before you say anything I'm very old-fashioned type of person.

There's a lot of opinion in there, but what qualifies you to declare that "Everybody knows" anything?
10 million people voted labour, some of them might think differently.

Tangled Metal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Jan 2020, 11:38am

The role of the leader is to lead the party into government at the next GE. Being a uniting leader or good opposition leader is secondary to that first objective. Although you're unlikely to be successful without the support of your party.

My worry is that the options might result in no overall success. Corby policies with a younger face might not get them into number 10, except as guests. Similarly more centrist leader might lose a lot of activist support. Starmer or Thornberry might not garner enough support from wider party activists which might not generate the votes to win.

I do think there's a dearth of good leaders around in the political parties. No real talent around. Well, long bailey is a talent but I think she's let down by political views being too left of popular politics. Btw I mean political talent not looks talent in case you had any doubts. I don't use the word talent that way.

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al_yrpal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby al_yrpal » 16 Jan 2020, 11:57am

Labour should forget about getting into power and concentrate on being an effective opposition and in that way influencing the government by highlighting injustice and national problems that need to be fixed. Its all very well flexing political muscles to an adoring lefty following but whats needed now is government action on many fronts. Government is the only body thats going to get things done ie moving party HQs, and all the waffle about regenerating the North can be parked, and urgent problems like the faulty UC, NHS waiting times, and homelessness etc should be at the top of the governments fix it list. Long lists of policies like Corbyns just make peoples eyes glaze over.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jan 2020, 12:26pm

Hi,
PH wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
So listening to the opinions of commentators is the way to read politics is it.
Everybody knows that following the Corby way will not get Labour elected.
It's not rocket science is it.
Maybe people have just changed the way they look at things nowadays and they don't want that old lefty stuff anymore, Put it this way Cobys ideas et cetera weren't that attractive to your modern thinking person.
Before you say anything I'm very old-fashioned type of person.

There's a lot of opinion in there, but what qualifies you to declare that "Everybody knows" anything?
10 million people voted labour, some of them might think differently.

Come on figure of speech :)
And those ten mil all voted for corby, stay or labour?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jan 2020, 12:31pm

The Tories have a large majority. A GE is not likely to take place for 5 years. It seems to me that today's priority is leadership which can challenge the government at every turn. That is important whichever main party you voted for.
John

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jan 2020, 12:42pm

Hi,
Challenge anything that is seen as injustice etc.
Challenge every turn?
That's gonna be wasting effort in my opinion.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Jan 2020, 12:51pm

I'd have thought a leader capable of running winning a GE would have the leadership qualities to be effective as an opposition leader. Afterall all new PMs start off as opposition, unless they depose the incumbent PM of course. :wink:

Seriously, a strong, consensus leader with more centrist outlook is probably the best option. Centrist is best chance to get into government. Strength to lead and pure ability will ensure good opposition (as good as you can get when the other party has such a majority).

I don't quite see anyone that's right. Is that the real result of corbynism, capable talent has left?

pete75
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pete75 » 16 Jan 2020, 2:06pm

pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:Because the risk posed by nationals from one nation may be perceived to be different to the risk from nationals from another nation. Because nationals from very poor nations are likely to be tempted to overstay. One would want this sort of assessment to be done on a rational basis, but it has to be done. But you are avoiding saying how you would like it to be done. Free and easy entry for all EU nationals but tight control for other nations? That is discriminatory if you want to call it that. Or free and easy entry for people from all nations? How do you think it should be done? I'm interested.

(Better not go on too long with this excursion off topic)


I'm not really bothered if a few people overstay. Immigration is not one of my concerns or worries.
You're the one who wants to end free movement - how would you like that to be done? I'd prefer for things to stay as they are now as you've probably guessed.


I know that, but you seem curious about my own idea of fairness at the border whilst being reluctant to reveal your own. You'd prefer things to stay the same but that includes extra requirements for people from India that don't apply people from some wealthier countries. I don't have easy answers to all of this and I suspect you don't either.


I'm not the person who wants to stop Europeans from coming to this country. You do. Now if they can get in easily as a visitor they can just as easily "overstay" . What would would you do to prevent this?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jan 2020, 2:16pm

Hi,
Tangled Metal wrote:I'd have thought a leader capable of running winning a GE would have the leadership qualities to be effective as an opposition leader. Afterall all new PMs start off as opposition, unless they depose the incumbent PM of course. :wink:

Seriously, a strong, consensus leader with more centrist outlook is probably the best option. Centrist is best chance to get into government. Strength to lead and pure ability will ensure good opposition (as good as you can get when the other party has such a majority).

I don't quite see anyone that's right. Is that the real result of corbynism, capable talent has left?

My bold emphasis- probably.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 Jan 2020, 4:25pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Tangled Metal wrote:I'd have thought a leader capable of running winning a GE would have the leadership qualities to be effective as an opposition leader. Afterall all new PMs start off as opposition, unless they depose the incumbent PM of course. :wink:

Seriously, a strong, consensus leader with more centrist outlook is probably the best option. Centrist is best chance to get into government. Strength to lead and pure ability will ensure good opposition (as good as you can get when the other party has such a majority).

I don't quite see anyone that's right. Is that the real result of corbynism, capable talent has left?

My bold emphasis- probably.

Well afaik the labour government's I know were centrist. I think there's not been many truly left wing governments of the order of corby or Foot. Certainly they were never successful like that.

pwa
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pwa » 16 Jan 2020, 9:55pm

pete75 wrote:
I'm not the person who wants to stop Europeans from coming to this country. You do. Now if they can get in easily as a visitor they can just as easily "overstay" . What would would you do to prevent this?

Okay, I give up. If you want to keep your ideas about a proper immigration policy to yourself, other than Free movement for EU migrants, fair enough. I've lost interest.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 18 Feb 2020, 5:51pm

Hi,
For the sake of democracy, (this topic has gone cold), but we need at least one opposing party's of the gov?

For me the leader vote is taking too long to be constructive in building a different party to the Tories.
Bearing in mind that all the candidates are saying that labour did not get it wrong, just did not connect, words to that effect?
It appears to me cynical self that no candidate whats to upset their core of supporters?

So we are afraid that we will all be under Tories for at least the next 15 years, its not good is it?

For the sake of democracy.

For those who have always been labour supporters what do yo think?
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