Brooks Saddle Rivets

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
iandusud
Posts: 244
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby iandusud » 26 Jan 2020, 9:47am

I've just picked up a s/h Brooks B17 which would appear to have had very little use. However for some reason or other two of the rivets have been replaced. What I assume to be the originals are small copper ones. The replacements are steel (plated) and are a little corroded. I'm not too bothered by this and might replace them at a later date.

But this has got me thinking about the use of copper and steel rivets on Brooks saddles, particularly the small rivets. I'm very aware of the fitting of larger copper rivets but not of small copper rivets. Does anyone know why or when Brooks used small copper rivets rather than the steel ones?

Thanks, Ian

MarcusT
Posts: 296
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 10:33am

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby MarcusT » 27 Jan 2020, 5:22am

As far as I can see, they still use the small copper rivets. A quick look at their website should be able to help you
I wish it were simple as riding a bike

iandusud
Posts: 244
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby iandusud » 27 Jan 2020, 6:30am

I can't see any saddles on their website using small copper rivets, only small steel or large copper.

Ian

Brucey
Posts: 37298
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby Brucey » 27 Jan 2020, 11:50am

they used to use small copper rivets at one time. I have seen saddles from the late 1950s made this way. Dunno when they changed.

FWIW I think that the steel rivets are a bad idea; sweat makes rust and any rust soon turns acidic, and this rots the leather.

I have reworked quite a few saddles using large copper rivets.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

iandusud
Posts: 244
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby iandusud » 27 Jan 2020, 1:32pm

I think this particular saddle dates from the mid 90s going by the badge. It is possible that all but two of the rivets have been replaced with steel ones but it looks more like two of the copper ones have been replace with steel. Small copper rivets still seem to be available:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/saddles/bro ... ad-byb248/

Edit: According to Brooks website that rivet, BYB248 is 12.5mm diameter although described as "small head". I'm confused!

lescargo
Posts: 175
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 11:51pm
Location: Tyneside

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby lescargo » 28 Jan 2020, 8:10pm

Believe I have, somewhere in a "bacca tin" Brooks type large copper rivets.
If you need these I will put them in the post if you will make donation to "Charlottes Tandems".

iandusud
Posts: 244
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby iandusud » 28 Jan 2020, 10:08pm

lescargo wrote:Believe I have, somewhere in a "bacca tin" Brooks type large copper rivets.
If you need these I will put them in the post if you will make donation to "Charlottes Tandems".


Thank you for the kind offer. What I would like is a couple of copper washers with 8.75mm diameter head.

Cheers, ian

lescargo
Posts: 175
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 11:51pm
Location: Tyneside

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby lescargo » 29 Jan 2020, 2:33pm

Test run

lescargo
Posts: 175
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 11:51pm
Location: Tyneside

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby lescargo » 29 Jan 2020, 2:57pm

Washers needed?
have you tried-
A) Brooks?
B)Saddlers?
C) ad. on CTC site-someone must have tried this previously and there may be maintenance electricians with access
to SIMILAR copper washers.

Your Size??? 8.75mm. od.

IIRC From S1 (1958) washer dimensions were based on bolt shank size --D
hole =D +small clearance, outside diameter = D x 2 in your case 8.75mm. , thickness = D x 0.1 .

My guess is that Brooks would, themselves, use SADDLER's industry standard parts which evolved from 1800?? not
based on say Whitworth? bolts?
A and B best bet; you might get something very close from bag copper washers from B & Q etc.
What are you going to use as "rivet set" to support but not bruise the "face" , outside of rivet while "setting" the section inside saddle?

alexnharvey
Posts: 945
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby alexnharvey » 29 Jan 2020, 4:00pm

I once tried to use a copper washer to repair a brooks saddle which had torn around the original rivet. It did not make a very satisfactory repair. While I've managed to dress the edges of new copper rivets I've fitted to be reasonably flush with the leather, I found it much more difficult to dress the washer edge and it stayed proud. Thinking about it again now, maybe this was because the edge of the rivets taper down or are rounded whereas the washer had a square edge. Maybe rounding it off before it's riveted would've been a good idea.

roger
Posts: 128
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 2:14pm

Re: Brooks Saddle Rivets

Postby roger » 4 Feb 2020, 6:10pm

FWIW back in the mid-fifties I got involved in modifying Brooks saddles. My father obtained the rivets and I still have tin marked "CU RIVETS" in chalk, obviously heavy duty chalk.