250 Miles

Psamathe
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250 Miles

Postby Psamathe » 12 Feb 2020, 3:09pm

Details have been vague (and conflicting) but now a government press reslease apparently quotes
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/12/1bn-pledged-for-cycling-and-walking-routes-across-england-boris-johnson wrote:Details were vague, but a government press release promised “over 250 miles of new, high-quality separated cycle routes and safe junctions”, as well as pilots of low-traffic neighbourhoods – the so-called mini-Hollands – which prioritise people over cars.

So, with 48 counties that gives us 5.2 miles of cycle path per county. So were are those 5.2 miles most needed in your county and will 5.2 miles of cycle path really make much difference ?

Ian

pwa
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby pwa » 12 Feb 2020, 3:18pm

The 250 miles is pitifully small. Very underwhelming.

The low traffic neighbourhoods thing looks more interesting.
Last edited by pwa on 12 Feb 2020, 3:37pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 12 Feb 2020, 3:33pm

“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

Vorpal
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Vorpal » 12 Feb 2020, 3:36pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

based upon what?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

pwa
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby pwa » 12 Feb 2020, 3:38pm

I'll be interested to see how they bring about a "Little Holland" in, say, Sowerby Bridge. :lol:

roubaixtuesday
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2020, 3:40pm

Vorpal wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

based upon what?


I think it's based on the percentage of cyclists in total road deaths - it was in the press.

You can probably work out the flaw in the stat.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 12 Feb 2020, 3:46pm

Vorpal wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

based upon what?


Scroll down to the article here

https://road.cc/content/news/271051-jer ... item-12723

Actually Holland is the second worst, only behind Ireland, my bad.

pwa
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby pwa » 12 Feb 2020, 3:48pm

I know it is only words, but so far the Government has made some encouraging noises about cleaner cars and sustainable transport, which I welcome. Obviously we must wait to see what actually materialises on the ground.

pwa
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby pwa » 12 Feb 2020, 3:52pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

based upon what?


Scroll down to the article here

https://road.cc/content/news/271051-jer ... item-12723

Actually Holland is the second worst, only behind Ireland, my bad.

Seems to be second highest total, but not percentage of anything. The second top spot billing is due to the very high number of cyclists out there.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby atlas_shrugged » 12 Feb 2020, 3:52pm

> Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

Nope. Not true. NL has a very high rate of cycling, much higher than elsewhere, and it is true this can cause more deaths. But this stat is meaningless and unfair to use as a comparison. There are only about 5 EU countries that report how far their cyclists cycle each year. Once you incorporate this statistic i.e. deaths per million km cycled then the UK becomes more dangerous for cyclists than NL.

Put simply if you get on your bike and cycle 1 meter then you are not likely to have an accident. But if you cycle say 10,000 km on UK roads then an accident is more likely.

Bonefishblues
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Feb 2020, 3:57pm

If you want to hear something hilarious listen to the lady Conservative Leader of the Lords reciting Johnson's commons speech about HS2.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby atlas_shrugged » 12 Feb 2020, 3:58pm

Alternatively compare two UK towns that are quite close to each other. Cambridge and Royston.

Cambridge has loads of cycle accidents and some deaths. Nearby Royston has very few cycle accidents and no deaths. Just based on accidents/death rates Royston should be a very safe place to cycle compared to Cambridge. The truth is there are very few cyclists in Royston - this explains the lower accident rate for cyclists (probably).

Vorpal
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Vorpal » 12 Feb 2020, 4:11pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.

based upon what?


Scroll down to the article here

https://road.cc/content/news/271051-jer ... item-12723

Actually Holland is the second worst, only behind Ireland, my bad.

The article says
A study by the European Transport Safety Council charting cycling fatalities over the last decade has found that the Netherlands is second only to Ireland in terms of the number of cyclist's deaths and the rate of increase; although considering the rates of cycling is so much higher than anywhere else in Europe, the figure of 228 deaths in 2018 is relatively lower than the 170 who died in Ireland, considering the latter's total number of cyclists is far lower.

This seems to refer to https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/PIN- ... _FINAL.pdf an except of which is here https://etsc.eu/how-safe-is-walking-and ... -flash-38/

Which means 228 is the total number of cyclist deaths. Given the difference in exposure (how often & how far people ride), that makes for a better outcome than the UK and most other countries.

The same report says
For example, countries where cycling is common, such as the Netherlands and Denmark, have a higher proportion of cyclist deaths compared to countries where cycling is not as widespread. However, this does not imply that cycling in the Netherlands and Denmark is unsafe. In fact, these countries are some of the safest places to cycle with extensive cycling infrastructure networks. In the Netherlands, for example, on average, a person cycles 865 km annually
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Oldjohnw
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 4:14pm

Bonefishblues wrote:If you want to hear something hilarious listen to the lady Conservative Leader of the Lords reciting Johnson's commons speech about HS2.


Yep. I was just waiting for her to ask, "Who writes this stuff?"
John

Mike Sales
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Re: 250 Miles

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Feb 2020, 4:22pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:“Little Hollands” :shock: The Netherlands had the worst death rates for cyclists, in Europe last year.


This sort of analysis leads logically to the conclusion that the surest way of eliminating cyclist casualties would be to ban cycling.